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Aboriginal storytelling accurately records sea level rises 7,000 years ago
- btilly 11y agoThere are many other oral histories that have documented similarly ancient events. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_memory#Species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_memory#Species for a list of some that have been claimed.
- LoSboccacc 11y agoyeah I find interesting that many legend and myths all have the sea rise event in common.
- qnaal 11y agoand nothing about lowering, 'cept for like moses or that five chinese brother
- niklasni1 11y agoIs lowering ever as dramatic as flooding?
- buffoon 11y agoYes. It allows people to migrate easily which inevitably leads to conflicts.
- henriquemaia 11y agoSince we are land animals, a lowering of the sea would provide more grounds to be covered by humans; more space means less interaction and less conflict. Maybe the sense of wonderment in finding new grounds is not enough to be folk-told throughout generations. As in the news, we tend to stick to the bad news rather than the good ones.
- Intermernet 11y agoAboriginal people wouldn't be in Australia at all if it weren't for sea level lowering, so you could say it's actually more dramatic than flooding. "There is considerable discussion among archeologists as to the route taken by the first migrants to Australia, widely taken to be ancestors of the modern Aborigines. Migration took place during the closing stages of the Pleistocene, when sea levels were much lower than they are today."[1] "It is generally believed that Aboriginal people are the descendants of a single migration into the continent, a people that split from the first modern human populations to leave Africa 64,000 to 75,000 years ago, although a minority propose that there were three waves of migration, most likely island hopping by boat during periods of low sea levels"[2] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_Australia#Arrival https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_Australia#Arriva... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australians#Arrival_and_occupation_of_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australians#Arrival...
- Rooki 11y agoIf I'm reading Wikipedias article on glacial periods correctly it indicates that the last time sea levels lowered significantly would have been between 71k and 115k years ago. I wonder if language complex enough to have an oral tradition existed that far back.
- dalke 11y agoVery likely. You may be interested in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_language ("The results suggest that language first evolved around 350,000-150,000 years ago, which is around the time when modern Homo sapiens evolved") an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_modernity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_modernity ("Howiesons Poort, Blombos, and other South African archaeological sites, for example, show evidence of marine resource acquisition, trade, and abstract ornamentation at least by 80,000 years ago.")
- arethuza 11y agoRelative sea levels can change because the land is rising as well as sea levels dropping - post glacial rebound means that areas that were heavily glaciated can actually be lifting at quite a rate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound e.g. Here in Scotland you just have to look at a shoreline to see that relative sea levels have dropped quite a bit even though sea levels have risen. When I was a kid I can remember my father talking about legends of Vikings sailing round Roseisle in Moray - which is quite high and dry now.
- themgt 11y agoNope, more like 12-8k years ago. Check out the Holocene sea level rise [1]. Jeffrey Rose's Persian Gulf Oasis / Out of Arabia theory is especially intriguing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_glacial_retreat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_glacial_retreat
- Rooki 11y agoThe parent was talking about sea levels lowering.
- simonh 11y agoIt's worth bearing in mind that not all flood myths are necessarily about rises in sea level. Extreme seasonal flooding is another possibility, especially for a population relatively new to an area occasionally prone to it, as is new lake formation or existing lakes bursting through a natural dam.
- nikbackm 11y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis
- fit2rule 11y agoI'm personally a huge fan of Szukalski and his crackpot art-theories about how, in all ancient art, there is a hidden proto-language which is being used to give us all a dire warning that in fact, every 60,000 years or so, a major deluge occurs, the planet is covered in water, which eventually recedes, but land-lubbers need to reset .. its a total crackpot theory, but if you're interested in great artwork and a wicked read through a highly profound mind, check out the book "BEYHOLD!! THE PROTONG!", Szukalski. http://www.amazon.com/Behold-Protong-Robert-Williams/dp/0867195193 http://www.amazon.com/Behold-Protong-Robert-Williams/dp/0867... Totally great stuff, had me looking at ancient art again, and I thoroughly enjoy finding Protong absolutely everywhere these days, its madness .. in a good way. (Not so keen on Zermatism, however, also mind-bending..)
- charonn0 11y agoThis reminds me of an Isaac Asimov short story named Nightfall[1] where (spoilers!) a species living in a trinary star system only sees the stars every few thousand years. The stars (indeed the very concept of "night" itself) are considered mythical/religious stories, and when night does come it drives the entire population violently insane, destroying the civilization and becoming the earliest myth of the civilization that rises from the ashes. [1]: http://www.astro.sunysb.edu/fwalter/AST389/TEXTS/Nightfall.htm http://www.astro.sunysb.edu/fwalter/AST389/TEXTS/Nightfall.h...
- fit2rule 11y agoCool, thanks for the recommendation .. I might've read that in my far, far distant youth, but I'll be picking it up again for sure now its on my to-read list.
- pvg 11y agoThe paper itself (linked in The Guardian and freely accessible online, to everyone's credit) http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00049182.2015.1077539 http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00049182.2015.10...
- egillie 11y agoFlood myths are astoundingly common https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
- mmahemoff 11y agoNeil Gaiman recently did a SALT seminar about what makes stories last. http://longnow.org/seminars/02015/jun/09/how-stories-last/ http://longnow.org/seminars/02015/jun/09/how-stories-last/ TLDL - Long-term warnings about phenomena like volcanoes are important for survival, but once the message spans three generations, it's coming from people you don't know, so there's a certain Darwinian quality to the elements of a story that will survive for centuries. This is one reason diverse cultures end up with similar stories.
- lurcio 11y ago...and yet, might we not also consider that oral traditions could serve to persist knowledge too important to be committed to perishable archives. Even now in the West.
- geon 11y agoI don't know. In the Heinlein novel Orphans of the Sky, the protagonist is taught to recite the Holy Scriptures of Newtonian Physics, but the literal meaning is confused by religious re-interpretation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphans_of_the_Sky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphans_of_the_Sky
- togeekornot 11y agoThanks for the Neil Gaiman link. The concept of the article is absolutely mind-boggling. Interesting how this only happened in Australia.
- aaron695 11y agoCold reading.
- tinfoilman 11y agoI was of the understanding that a flood about 7k years ago did happen and that was pretty accepted. We have the Mayans, bible, and number of flood 'myths' stories. I also believe that there is rock sediment that also backs up this claim that there was heavy flooding around this time frame. However this does not appear to be global flooding because the Egyptian who have a good documented history never bring it up and I really feel they would have. My guess is that this flood was when low level lands got submerged, thinking the med base here (which I think lines up with the bible of things well) and low level South America which would line up with the Mayans creation stories. This would also back up my idea that most of civilizations over time have built near water and this is why I believe most of the impressive civilizations will be underwater now as the water levels have been raising. (personally very excited about some of the stuff we are finding underwater these days) The issue is there is so little research on water levels, and most of the documented stuff is from the coast of the USA rather than a global effort to document it. Keep hoping that someone will build some drones that can just fly around and measure this stuff
- vacri 11y agoMayans are only 4k years old, and Egyptians 5k, if you can use 'only' in that context... The oldest writing system is about 5.5k years old (cunieform); I'm not sure if history can be considered well-documented without something like writing.
- dalke 11y ago"The issue is there is so little research on water levels" That's just not true. Here's one of many graphs on water levels on a global scale: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Post-Glacial_Sea_Level.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Post-Glacial_Sea_Lev... . By 7K years ago the major sea level rise was nearly finished. For example, the Persian Gulf was flooded about 8,000 years ago. Extensive research has been done in part because of how it's coupled to projections of future sea level rise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise . You imply there is insufficient information on global water rise. A quick search finds this a study on the "Late glacial to post glacial sea levels in the Western Indian Ocean" http://www.researchgate.net/publication/40702427_Late_glacial_to_post_glacial_sea_levels_in_the_Western_Indian_Ocean._Mar_Geology http://www.researchgate.net/publication/40702427_Late_glacia... . It describes some of the many other studies in sea level rise that were done in places other than the US coasts. "Keep hoping that someone will build some drones that can just fly around and measure this stuff" If you read the paper you'll see the aerial photography is not enough. The research also included drilling and submersible dives.
- rsync 11y agoIsn't it possible that building cities near the coastline is, in the long view, a bad idea ? Even without global warming or climate change or whatever, isn't it pretty dicey to put anything at 0-5 meters above sea level that is meant to last longer than a generation ? Major population and infrastructure right on the ocean may be a hallmark of a fairly young civilization.
- 13thLetter 11y agoThe coastline is full of useful things that humans like, such as a moderate climate and convenient trade. Even if a hurricane occasionally rolls through and messes it up, that's a transient inconvenience in the long term and easily forgotten.
- situationista 11y agoReminds me of the work of the Human Interference Task Force, set up in 1981 to come up with strategies to provide necessary knowledge about the dangers related to active nuclear waste across several millennia to future generations. Françoise Bastide and Paolo Fabbri, two members of the Task Force, proposed breeding "radiation cats" that would change significantly in color when they came near radioactive emissions and serve as living indicators of danger [0]. In order to transport the message, the importance of the cats would need to be set in the collective awareness through fairy tales and myths, which the authors considered to be the most effective way to communicate with future generations. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Interference_Task_Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Interference_Task_Force
- bonobo 11y agoI don't know if the documentary Into Eternity[0] is related to this task force, but it was the first time I was exposed to the idea of preserving information for thousands of years. Fascinated stuff. It never ocurred to me how hard it would be to instruct future generations to stay away of a nuclear deposit after so much time. [0] http://intoeternity.co.uk/about/index.php http://intoeternity.co.uk/about/index.php
- situationista 11y agoThe band Emperor X even wrote a tune to begin the process of getting the myth of the Raycats into the public consciousness: https://emperorx.bandcamp.com/album/10000-year-earworm-to-discourage-settlement-near-nuclear-waste-repositories https://emperorx.bandcamp.com/album/10000-year-earworm-to-di...
- sandworm101 11y agoIt is interesting to here of situations where traditional oral histories line up with scientific measurement. It's a fun topic. But after a while these articles give the false impression that oral traditions are somehow trustworthy. Few ever talk about where the oral history is fundamentally incorrect. It always seems that the scientific discovery comes first, that the oral confirmation is just window dressing in the press release. Is the "extraordinary thing" of confirmation the norm? How many oral histories were disproved during this research? These articles also tend to polish out the rough edges. How exactly did this people fleeing the rising water levels "negotiate" with peoples in the interior? Was this controlled mediation? Or does the term "negotiate" also cover outright war between cultures? Perhaps part of the reason these stories survived was the bloodshed surrounding their creation. I'd like to see the transcripts.
- Shorel 11y agoInteresting that women are the ones who keep the oral histories. I guess it has to do with their better linguistic abilities an long term memory.