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Well, you can easily look up NYC teacher salaries. They start at $50k and go up to $105k. http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/2712AB02-A1EF-4CE2-B879-33241B7AF

by phonon 11y ago

Well, you can easily look up NYC teacher salaries. They start at $50k and go up to $105k. http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/2712AB02-A1EF-4CE2-B879-33241B7AFFB5/0/TeacherSCHEDULEMAY12015Corrected.pdf http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/2712AB02-A1EF-4CE2-B879-... When you take into account the shorter work day/work year http://www.uft.org/new-teachers/your-work-day-and-year http://www.uft.org/new-teachers/your-work-day-and-year really good benefits, including a $50-$60k a year pension (http://www.empirecenter.org/publications/pension-calculator/ http://www.empirecenter.org/publications/pension-calculator/) and essentially tenure...well, it's not too bad...

panzagl 11y ago
Why shouldn't it be 'not too bad'? For NYC that's the lower end of middle class- comparable to being in a (unionized) trade. And I can guarantee the teachers put up with more shit than a plumber.
- phonon 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure plumbers deal with more shit. Literally.
biftek 11y ago
lol if you think teachers have a "shorter work day/work year" My girlfriend is a High School teacher in NY, and easily works more than I do. You have to factor in planning and grading which is all done after "work".
- phonon 11y ago
  Well, average actual hours worked in the US is around 1800 (that's net after sick days, vacation, personal days, etc.) https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS Given (in NYC) a school day of 6.33 hours (including lunch) and a school year of 18x days, then subtract personal days and the like...well. Also, most teachers don't need to do as much planning after a few years. Is if fair that longer serving teachers get paid twice as much as new ones, when new ones put in more hours usually? Well...
  - hdctambien 11y ago
    Most teachers aren't teachers after a few years[0] so most teachers do not benefit from having old lesson plans, most teachers are not making the upper levels of salary, and most teachers will never collect on their not-social-security-pensions. The school day may be 6.33 hours (including lunch) but do you only count football players as working 3 hours a week when you watch them on TV? Teachers have to do a lot of "under the table" work to make those 6.33 hours (including lunch) happen. When are those tests getting graded? When are those struggling students getting extra help? When are those lesson plans getting written? When are those parent-teacher conferences happening? When are those teachers going to football games/plays/other events to make connections with the students? When are those teachers writing letters of recommendation for those students? When are those lesson plans being modified to meet the needs of students with IEPs? When are those lesson plans being modified to meet the needs of ESL students? When are the formative and summative assessments being analyzed to modify lesson plans to better meet the needs of the students? Those 6.33 hours (including lunch) are just the hours that teachers spend in front of the camera. There is so much more work involved to support those 6.33 hours (including lunch). Even for the long tenured teachers. If a teacher is resting on their laurels and just rehashing old lesson plans, then that's one of the "bad ones". [0] http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/03/30/395322012/the-hidden-costs-of-teacher-turnover http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/03/30/395322012/the-hidd...
    - phonon 11y ago
      It is a crying shame that there is so much teacher churn...why is that? In the article you reference, it's actually not primarily related to compensation, but to autonomy, support, and student behavioral issues. Yes, of course, like I said, there are many outside the class hours. And in fact, 6.33 hours/d are not the "hours in front of the camera" (I assume you mean instructional hours.) The exact number is a bit hazy, due to self-reporting issues, but it seems to be about 700 h/y. http://cbcse.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/The-MismeasureofTeachingTime-SA-1.14.15.pdf http://cbcse.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/The-Mi...
      - hdctambien 11y ago
hdctambien 11y ago
Let's talk about the teacher's work day. Your link says it's 6 hours and 55 minutes, including lunch. So 6 hours and 25 minutes is a work day. Plus there's 150 minutes a week (2 and a half hours, or 30 minutes per day) for training, professional development, teacher collaboration, parent engagement and other professional activities. 150 minutes for all of that is a joke, and if any teacher was actually following that rule (union or not) then you'd be hearing about it. What are "other professional activities? Students that need extra help? Students that need to make up work/tests? Grading homework/tests/quizzes I have about 150 students. If I give a test, that's 150 tests to grade. If it takes me 1 minute to grade each test, then I've just blown that entire quota of "other professional activities" But I still do my job. I grade all those 150 tests. Then I grade the homework that I gave all those students. Then I write my lesson plans for the next classes and I write the next test. And I email/call parents. And I meet with parents. And I see students before/after school to answer their questions and have them make up their work and tests. And I answer emails from students that have questions about their homework. I spend 6 hours and 25 minutes a day teaching. I spend plenty more time making sure students learn. But at least I get summer vacation, right? Sure, it's just full of mandatory Professional Development (so I can keep my teacher license up to date) and lesson planning for the next year. But hey, in New York you can make up to $105k! After 22 years AND earning a PhD (which you paid for with your own money ... and where did you find the time to get that degree?) Rent in NY is 3x rent where I live, but the max $105k isn't even 3x the starting salary of my school district.
- phonon 11y ago
  That's for nurses, etc. It's 6 hours and 20 minutes for regular teachers (including lunch). Actual instruction hours per day are quite a bit less of course. Even for someone without more advanced degrees (fyi you do not need a PhD to cap out.) you cap out at $93k. Agreed that teachers (particularly beginner teachers) put in a lot of hours outside school. 10 hours a week? More? So a 40-50 hour workweek during the school year? (But with predictable scheduling, which not all professionals have.) A roughly $1 MM dollar annuity when you retire isn't so horrible either. Lesson planning takes less time as you get more experienced, plus you reuse your old lesson plans. 175 hours every five years for required professional development? http://www.uft.org/q-issues/maintaining-your-professional-certificate http://www.uft.org/q-issues/maintaining-your-professional-ce... Did I miss anything? COL in NYC is definitely higher...but you do not have to live in Manhattan. There are many affordable areas in NYC.

by phonon 11y ago

panzagl 11y ago

Why shouldn't it be 'not too bad'? For NYC that's the lower end of middle class- comparable to being in a (unionized) trade. And I can guarantee the teachers put up with more shit than a plumber.

phonon 11y ago
I'm pretty sure plumbers deal with more shit. Literally.

biftek 11y ago

lol if you think teachers have a "shorter work day/work year" My girlfriend is a High School teacher in NY, and easily works more than I do. You have to factor in planning and grading which is all done after "work".

phonon 11y ago
Well, average actual hours worked in the US is around 1800 (that's net after sick days, vacation, personal days, etc.) https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS Given (in NYC) a school day of 6.33 hours (including lunch) and a school year of 18x days, then subtract personal days and the like...well. Also, most teachers don't need to do as much planning after a few years. Is if fair that longer serving teachers get paid twice as much as new ones, when new ones put in more hours usually? Well...
- hdctambien 11y ago
  Most teachers aren't teachers after a few years[0] so most teachers do not benefit from having old lesson plans, most teachers are not making the upper levels of salary, and most teachers will never collect on their not-social-security-pensions. The school day may be 6.33 hours (including lunch) but do you only count football players as working 3 hours a week when you watch them on TV? Teachers have to do a lot of "under the table" work to make those 6.33 hours (including lunch) happen. When are those tests getting graded? When are those struggling students getting extra help? When are those lesson plans getting written? When are those parent-teacher conferences happening? When are those teachers going to football games/plays/other events to make connections with the students? When are those teachers writing letters of recommendation for those students? When are those lesson plans being modified to meet the needs of students with IEPs? When are those lesson plans being modified to meet the needs of ESL students? When are the formative and summative assessments being analyzed to modify lesson plans to better meet the needs of the students? Those 6.33 hours (including lunch) are just the hours that teachers spend in front of the camera. There is so much more work involved to support those 6.33 hours (including lunch). Even for the long tenured teachers. If a teacher is resting on their laurels and just rehashing old lesson plans, then that's one of the "bad ones". [0] http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/03/30/395322012/the-hidden-costs-of-teacher-turnover http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/03/30/395322012/the-hidd...
  - phonon 11y ago
    It is a crying shame that there is so much teacher churn...why is that? In the article you reference, it's actually not primarily related to compensation, but to autonomy, support, and student behavioral issues. Yes, of course, like I said, there are many outside the class hours. And in fact, 6.33 hours/d are not the "hours in front of the camera" (I assume you mean instructional hours.) The exact number is a bit hazy, due to self-reporting issues, but it seems to be about 700 h/y. http://cbcse.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/The-MismeasureofTeachingTime-SA-1.14.15.pdf http://cbcse.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/The-Mi...
    - hdctambien 11y ago

hdctambien 11y ago

Let's talk about the teacher's work day. Your link says it's 6 hours and 55 minutes, including lunch. So 6 hours and 25 minutes is a work day. Plus there's 150 minutes a week (2 and a half hours, or 30 minutes per day) for training, professional development, teacher collaboration, parent engagement and other professional activities. 150 minutes for all of that is a joke, and if any teacher was actually following that rule (union or not) then you'd be hearing about it. What are "other professional activities? Students that need extra help? Students that need to make up work/tests? Grading homework/tests/quizzes I have about 150 students. If I give a test, that's 150 tests to grade. If it takes me 1 minute to grade each test, then I've just blown that entire quota of "other professional activities" But I still do my job. I grade all those 150 tests. Then I grade the homework that I gave all those students. Then I write my lesson plans for the next classes and I write the next test. And I email/call parents. And I meet with parents. And I see students before/after school to answer their questions and have them make up their work and tests. And I answer emails from students that have questions about their homework. I spend 6 hours and 25 minutes a day teaching. I spend plenty more time making sure students learn. But at least I get summer vacation, right? Sure, it's just full of mandatory Professional Development (so I can keep my teacher license up to date) and lesson planning for the next year. But hey, in New York you can make up to $105k! After 22 years AND earning a PhD (which you paid for with your own money ... and where did you find the time to get that degree?) Rent in NY is 3x rent where I live, but the max $105k isn't even 3x the starting salary of my school district.

phonon 11y ago
That's for nurses, etc. It's 6 hours and 20 minutes for regular teachers (including lunch). Actual instruction hours per day are quite a bit less of course. Even for someone without more advanced degrees (fyi you do not need a PhD to cap out.) you cap out at $93k. Agreed that teachers (particularly beginner teachers) put in a lot of hours outside school. 10 hours a week? More? So a 40-50 hour workweek during the school year? (But with predictable scheduling, which not all professionals have.) A roughly $1 MM dollar annuity when you retire isn't so horrible either. Lesson planning takes less time as you get more experienced, plus you reuse your old lesson plans. 175 hours every five years for required professional development? http://www.uft.org/q-issues/maintaining-your-professional-certificate http://www.uft.org/q-issues/maintaining-your-professional-ce... Did I miss anything? COL in NYC is definitely higher...but you do not have to live in Manhattan. There are many affordable areas in NYC.