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Germany's Wi-Fi Shortage Set to Ease as Merkel Backs New Bill
- goldenkey 11y agoAnd as usual, the whole reason that this "liability law" existed in the first place was because Merkel was in bed with some green guy named Benjamin. And what's funny is the repeal is only happening because of monetary interests as well. I guess the movie/music industry isn't paying as much as the other guys offered! Sad to know that Merkel has made Germany into a mushroom tied to a string.
- roymurdock 11y agoWhat is "a mushroom tied to a string"? I've never heard that colloquialism before, but it's hilarious. All I got with a google search was some stock photos.
- goldenkey 11y agoIt's a euphemism for genitalia. My inner circle uses it to refer to something that has become a joke of itself.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y agoThank you for posting your obscure in-jokes on a reasonably public forum.
- qnaal 11y agoThank you for publicly complaining about a completely-obvious-from-context idiom so sassily
- pluma 11y agoIt's not obvious at all. At least not from the context alone. I'm not even sure how you cam up with that idiom, nor which sex's genitalia it's supposed to look like.
- qnaal 11y ago> Sad to know that Merkel has made Germany into a mushroom tied to a string. > Sad to know that Merkel has made Germany into a silly joke. any child could figure that out, especially considering the tone of the comment already set with 'benjamin' why are you posting
- Someone1234 11y ago> Merkel was in bed with some green guy named Benjamin. What a misguided reference. Last I checked no Euro note or coin has anyone called "Benjamin" on them, in fact they don't have people on them at all, they're places. Americans really need to stop using the Benjamin/Jackson/etc thing online to describe money, it isn't a clever reference even in relation to US currency and just comes across as ignorant when used to describe other country's monetary instruments (such as this case).
- meatysnapper 11y agoEurope is welcome to 1) come up with a catchier nickname for money 2) have a sense of humor.
- ajmurmann 11y agoI actually misunderstood the entire statement because of this. I thought this was happening because of a politician from the green party and was going over green party politicians to figure out whom could possible me meant. I live in the US since 8 years and still misunderstood it.
- tormeh 11y agoFriendly tip: You need to look at the different uses of "since" and "for" in English.
- ajmurmann 11y agoYeah, thanks. I know the difference in theory, but reliably mess it up. If more people were to call me on it like you did, it would probably be fixed by now. My American wife never tells me these things and just confirms it when someone else is so nice to point is out. :(
- qnaal 11y ago> I live in the US since 8 years and still misunderstood it. in particular it's hard to tell whether you mean 'since I were eight years old' vs 'for a span of eight years' also, a native speaker would probably use tense such as "I have lived", so casually, "I've lived in the US for 8 years and still misunderstood it." and noone ever uses whom, but you probably used it correctly ps you typoed 'possibly be' and 'it'
- pm3003 11y agoFrom the "WLAN" café I spent 2 weeks to find in Kiel (currently in a seminar, no internet access), and having just paid my €40 bill for 6 GB (bad) 3G Internet this month, I fully approve this bill. I also hope at some point cellular internet will get cheaper in Germany... France 20€ 20 GB, Latvia 10 € 20GB with LTE, Germany 500MB 12€.
- kogepathic 11y agoWhat? I pay 15€ per month and have 5GB. And when I exceed that I can pay 3€ again to have full speed. ALDI Talk/MedionMobile
- pm3003 11y agoO2. 28€ / 5 GB + 10€ "Datensnack" (exceed). The 500 MB thing is a commercial I saw a few days ago "LTE Einsteigertariif" with a flat rate telephone. Actually not that bad, but 500MB LTE... I have a feeling I'll switch soon. I just took O2 because I had a good experience with their prepaid rates, and having checked T-Mobile and Vodafone I didn't find it better.
- junto 11y agoI've just signed up to WinSIM who are O2. They have some good cheap packages if you are a low user of SMS and calls but do use data. I'm paying €4,99 per month for 1GB. Calls are €0,15 per minute. I've just started so I'm not sure what the catch is yet!
- denzil_correa 11y ago> From the "WLAN" café Is there any other country which calls WiFi as WLAN? I have traveled to many countries in Europe but I assume Germany, France and Luxembourg seem to be the only countries that use this term.
- pm3003 11y agoNever heard it in France (in France you usually use the word LAN or WLAN for local networks, as it should be).
- Kequc 11y agoGermany is no longer going to be one of the only places on Earth which punishes Wifi providers for what users do while on their network? I may actually be able to choose between more than 3 different cafes' that offer Wifi from my half of the city? (One fewer than a month ago.) Wow. That would actually be fantastic thanks for getting on that.
- nolite 11y agoFrance does as well
- pm3003 11y agoYes, but they have introduced new practical rules for simplified user registration. And anyway they're not as restrictive as the Germans. For some fun, check GEMA vs Youtube: https://apps.opendatacity.de/gema-vs-youtube/en/ https://apps.opendatacity.de/gema-vs-youtube/en/
- detaro 11y agoGEMA vs youtube is not really related.
- denzil_correa 11y agoThanks Merkel for the small mercies! I do know of at least one free WiFi providing service in Germany - "Freifunk Saar". https://saar.freifunk.net https://saar.freifunk.net
- MrBuddyCasino 11y ago> providers won’t be held liable as long as they secure the network properly and get users to agree not to act illegally Of course they had to include that paragraph, forcing everyone to tick some stupid check-box. As if the cookie agreements weren't enough already.
- jessriedel 11y agoI'm really trying to understand how anyone can think this is sensible. Maybe 20 years ago when these laws were written by people who had never used WiFi at a cafe before, but surely everyone involved with writing this bill intuits that this sort of a measure is utterly worthless and just induces frictions. Maybe it enables prosecution later for lying? Hard to believe they think that outweighs the costs.
- neuronic 11y agoDid you ever take a look who sits in the European Parliament and European Commission? Introducing Günther Oettinger, the European Commissioner for Digital Economy and Society: (wait for his English at the 0:20 mark) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88OGXLFpeMw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88OGXLFpeMw As a German I am completely embarrassed.
- skrebbel 11y agowait, you're embarrassed because a politician has an accent when speaking English?
- rotoole 11y agoThis is an issue across many EU countries, that require by law that WiFi providers track what their users do online, and to keep a permanent record of it. Its onerous to implement and support. I believe it arose from anti-terrorism legislation.
- briandear 11y agoIt also feels like Stasi era nonsense. If someone borrows my phone, must I record the call?
- mahouse 11y agoYes obviously, how do you prove it was not you who made the call?
- scotty79 11y agoVoice? Being provably somewhere else when the call was made?
- mahouse 11y agoVoice -> it is not recorded by default by anybody unless you are under the spotlight. Prove you are somewhere else -> can you prove you were somewhere else 24/7? I bet you can not.
- scotty79 11y agoIf you don't have the voice then you can't say I made the call. Only that it came from phone registered to me. I can't disprove that if that happened.
- chopin 11y agoNo, but the contents will be attributed to you...
- wifi_germany 11y agoThis bill is actually heavily criticized in germany, for example by the Freifunk initiative: http://freifunkstattangst.de/2015/06/16/neuer-tmg-entwurf-zur-notifizierung-an-die-eu-noch-immer-keine-rechtssicherheit-wlan-stoererhaftung-bleibt/ http://freifunkstattangst.de/2015/06/16/neuer-tmg-entwurf-zu... (german) The bill requires network operators to make "reasonable effort to secure the network against unauthorized access" and to "allow access only to users that have agreed not to violate the law during their use" of the network. The bill also takes service providers into liability if they offer "gefahrgeeignete Dienste" (I have no idea how that accurately translates to english). Heise has more information in german: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Bundesregierung-beschliesst-umstrittenen-WLAN-Gesetzentwurf-2818747.html http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Bundesregierung-besch...
- neuronic 11y agoI think "gefahrgeeignete Dienste" could be translated as "services with potential for dangerous misuse", no?
- pavel_lishin 11y ago> The bill requires network operators to make "reasonable effort to secure the network against unauthorized access" and to "allow access only to users that have agreed not to violate the law during their use" of the network. Can you elaborate on why this is bad?
- briandear 11y agoWould a bad person actually refuse to agree with not breaking the law? A 'bad' person already has a willingness to not follow the rules, so how would an agreement matter?
- codebeaker 11y agoI'm currently suffering two copyright infringement cases, which I can only assume are the result of the storm that reset my FritzRepeater back to factory settings, leaving an open bridge into my network. Two copyright claims, from two law firms, for albums I've never heard of, at times that I wasn't in the house. Because of an arcane, but largely logical German law named "Störerhaftung" I am by default responsible, and have to pay both claims (in the order of €5,000 each). I have no recourse. Tech-savvy as I am, powerless to defend against a case such as this, where do I stand, I could theoretically bring a case against AVM Deutschland (manufacturer of the Fritzrepeater) but then the burden is on me to prove their buggy software failed, and reset to factory settings. An impossible situation, and I hope that laws such as these move in the direction of transparency, the Störerhaftung is designed to make sure that someone who loses out always has someone to claim against (common other uses, are for example if drunks throw stones from the top of a building, and then run away, the building owner is responsible, in lieu of finding and proving that the drunkards were responsible) - it's arcane, and whilst well intended, and the "terrorism" argument holds strong, this is about copyright, and always maintaining the Störerhaftung right.
- ju-st 11y agoYou (most propably) don't have to pay anything. Source: http://www.arag.de/auf-ins-leben/udo-vetter/filesharing-oft-reicht-ein-dickes-fell/ http://www.arag.de/auf-ins-leben/udo-vetter/filesharing-oft-...
- kuschku 11y agoIf you want to read more from the same lawyer, his blog is available at lawblog.de
- vapourismo 11y agohttps://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unterlassungserklärung https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unterlassungserklärung I think that is what you need.
- linohh 11y ago
- mtgx 11y agoIs that why Wi-Fi is so bad all over Berlin?
- expertentipp 11y agoIn Berlin? Impossible, it's European startup hub! /s
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- odiroot 11y agoCan we shut down GEMA while we're at that?
- junto 11y agoWhy? They are trying their best to collect a fair fee for artists. YouTube are the ones that have decided that those rules shouldn't apply to them and rather than accept those laws they use their own site as propaganda to blame GEMA. What you get presented on YouTube isn't telling the whole truth by any means. It is really annoying as a YouTube user in Germany to have so many music videos blocked, but that is what Google want you to feel. They appear to be doing a very good job of it by the sound of it! The reality is that GEMA and Google are both acting like children over the matter that has been going on since 2009. Both are to blame but the only thing users see is that it is all GEMA's fault. The issue needs to be blamed on both. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_YouTube_videos_in_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_YouTube_videos_i...
- Xylakant 11y agoWhile you're right that the youtube issue is more complicated than "google good gema bad" it's an interesting assessment that the GEMA is trying to collect a "fair" fee for the artist. The GEMA is in dire need of reform on the fair front and on a couple of other issues as well. For example, only the upper 5% of the members get to vote on the distribution of funds, classical music gets ranked higher etc. The goal of the GEMA is a fine one, but over the years the institution has gone somewhat astray. For german speakers I can recommend http://www.internet-law.de/2012/05/ist-das-system-gema-unfair.html http://www.internet-law.de/2012/05/ist-das-system-gema-unfai... as summary.
- mseidl 11y ago12 cents per view? That's insane!
- modeless 11y ago> as long as they [...] get users to agree not to act illegally Is forcing everyone to set up captive portal pages just so people can check a stupid box on a form going to make anyone's life better? Is it going to benefit anyone in any way? I can't understand how anyone could possibly think that this requirement is a good idea.
- lucb1e 11y agoOh, that explains. I've always wondered why there are so incredibly few hotspots in Germany - and the few existing hotspots are paid. Voiced it a few times to Germans but nobody knew it was because operators would be held liable.
- kuschku 11y agoBecause it’s usually not an issue. In my city, we have open hotspots in most of the downtown areas and in all the shopping malls anyway – since 2011. It’s not like this new bill would change anything anyway, as providers just showed a "if you tick this box, you are liable, not us" page upon connecting to the network.
- pluma 11y agoYeah, it's not common knowledge how the law works for public providers. Most people just know that keeping their own WiFi unprotected is dangerous. That said, this seems to slowly change. Long-distance bus services have sprung up recently (I think there was a change in regulations) and a lot of them provide free, no-hassle open WiFi. Of course they tend to block the big streaming sites (e.g. YouTube) due to the bandwidth limitations, but it's still better than the WiFi you get on long-distance express trains (which requires you to have an account with the network provider and AFAIK isn't free).
- kaybe 11y agoMay I introduce you to Freifunk: They're basically working around Störerhaftung by channeling the traffic over a gateway as an ISP. Everyone can offer up part of their traffic, and there are quite a few members (as shown in the local groups, they have maps). Feel free to use some of our traffic, for example. No problems so far. http://freifunk.net/en/ http://freifunk.net/en/
- expertentipp 11y agoEach time Germans are passing any internet related laws or their brave lawyers are winning another case against evil Facebook/Google I'm just facepalming. They keep on hurting themselves, which part of the internet is so difficult they are not capable of understanding?
- expertentipp 11y ago> as long as they secure the network properly How do I prove it? This right here is so abmahnung trolls can keep on threatening > and get users to agree not to act illegally Yet another useless popup, cookie popup is not enough > ”digital agenda” aimed at blanketing the country with high-speed Internet by 2018 A yeah, "VDSL for all". Where do I buy VDSL modem in 2018? I will have to break into Technisches Museum and steal one (no, I don't want your "free" fritzbox)
- simoncion 11y agoWhy don't you want a Fritz!Box? If the internet comments are to be believed, they are the best routers in Germany. [0] [0] Note: I'm a USian who is rather happy with his EdgeRouter Lite + UAP-AC-LR.
- expertentipp 11y agoNothing in particular against Fritzboxes, it's just there is plethora of good producers and devices and I like to have a choice. Fritzboxes are everywhere in Germany, by strange coincidence retailers expose them in the most visible spots, many ISPs promote them heavily by offering them for "free" or very cheap with their subscriptions. In the same time it's quite impossible to buy a plain VDSL modem and most VDSL capable routers cost well over EUR 100.
- roel_v 11y agoOh here is my chance to complain about this pet peeve! My provider gives you a Fritzbox with you subscription, I called them a few times that they should use their mass-purchase leverage to demand better functionality but of course the poor support people couldn't make that happen even if they understood what I was getting at :) Fritzboxen are praised across the internet as great routers, but they won't even let you - change the default host name suffix - assign static host names for internal use - see which device uses how much bandwidth (only the total - yeah great, now I have to hunt for which machine/mobile is uploading all those photos to dropbox) - block machines from the network, and/or throttle bandwidth. It looks like you can do it, but the implementation is useless - yes you can prioritize smtp over http, hurrah! Everything bandwidth-hungry in 2015 goes over http, and then it's all-or-nothing on fritzbox.