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I'm curious... when you travel do you pay extra for services you don't receive? For example, if you are going to stay in a hotel for five days, do you pay for s

by wang_li 11y ago

I'm curious... when you travel do you pay extra for services you don't receive? For example, if you are going to stay in a hotel for five days, do you pay for seven?

cryoshon 11y ago
Labor isn't the same as other commodities, and shouldn't be treated in the same fashion. For instance, you don't go to the store, take a can of WD-40 home, use it, then go back to the store to pay for the can. Labor (unjustly, but not hugely so) is given to employers on credit from workers. You work a week (giving the commodity of labor away for free during that week because you have no choice in the matter) then get paid afterward. The point of this push for labor rights is that laborers aren't being fairly compensated in a variety of dimensions for the work they've done.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  You said it! Contractors have it worse. You typically get paid net-60, you're actually working for a quarter for nothing and hoping the company is still solvent to pay you. E.g. start working Jan 1st; bill for the month on Jan 31st. Net-60 means getting paid for that April 1st. You work 90 days on hope.
  - cryoshon 11y ago
    That's pretty bad. Reminds me of Amazon's payment schemes for authors. Month ends, your pay is marked off-- and the check is in your bank account long, long after, allowing them to have more liquidity at your expense.
- dasmoth 11y ago
  > For instance, you don't go to the store, take a can of WD-40 home, use it, then go back to the store to pay for the can. That's true, but may have more to do with an unwillingness to track a squillion IOUs for individual cans of WD-40 than a sign of a fundamental difference. Were you a company buying a pallet of the stuff, things would be different. (That said, if I pay by credit card it'll be at least a month before the card issuer thinks about charging me interest, so things aren't so very different as an individual, either...)
- wang_li 11y ago
  >Labor isn't the same as other commodities, Depends on the relationship. Instead of a hotel, say you decided that you enjoy a massage and after some research you find a license therapist in your area and you have a trial massage and, having appreciated said massage, you decide to establish twice weekly massages. So you talk with the therapist and establish a nice $125/hour rate for them to come to your house every Tuesday and Thursday at 2:00pm for an hour massage. Having negotiated a rate, you agree that this is an ongoing deal until one or the other of you decides to cancel it. Now, you've agreed to effectively $1,000/month salary for this person. Are you really going to go ahead and pay them the agreed upon $1,000/month even though they: a) catch a virus and are unable to come for two weeks. b) take a vacation to Pittsburgh and are not going to be there next Thursday. c) have a child and aren't going to be coming to give your massage for the next six, eight, or ten weeks? d) have signed up extra clients and will reach sixty hours by Thursday morning, so they won't be able to provide their Thursday afternoon or Friday appointments due to hard limits on overtime. e) now that they have a kid, you're going to pay an extra $10 per session for child care. For some reason, my gut feeling is that you're not going to do any of those things and instead put it on the therapist to manage their business and accept that they will get paid for services rendered and nothing else.
swalsh 11y ago
I bet you don't have kids, or aren't currently thinking through the logistics of having them. Your mind games just don't apply equally to labor.
- escherize 11y ago
  I'm curious about what your argument is, since "think about having children though" and stating an opposite position doesn't lead anywhere.
  - mnglkhn2 11y ago
    Kids have to be picked up at 3pm or, if you want to keep them for the whole day in school, at 5pm. Unless you hire a nanny, 5pm becomes a hard stop for you, no matter what start-up life you dream of having. Then, during the week-end, your guilt of not spending too much time during the week will eat at you and you will try and to use most of the free time with your kid(s). Or, you can decide not to get involved too much with your kinds, eventually shipping them off to a boarding school. even for that, you have to pay dearly.
michael_h 11y ago
Absolutely! The hotels I usually stay at have: * a business center with pc/printer/fax machine * a gym * a 'meet-and-greet' with complimentary beverages * an inexplicable twice a day cleaning schedule * tennis/basketball courts * shuttle service * cable television All of which I do not use, but are definitely included in their overhead costs and passed on to me, the consumer.

by wang_li 11y ago

I'm curious... when you travel do you pay extra for services you don't receive? For example, if you are going to stay in a hotel for five days, do you pay for seven?

cryoshon 11y ago

Labor isn't the same as other commodities, and shouldn't be treated in the same fashion. For instance, you don't go to the store, take a can of WD-40 home, use it, then go back to the store to pay for the can. Labor (unjustly, but not hugely so) is given to employers on credit from workers. You work a week (giving the commodity of labor away for free during that week because you have no choice in the matter) then get paid afterward. The point of this push for labor rights is that laborers aren't being fairly compensated in a variety of dimensions for the work they've done.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
You said it! Contractors have it worse. You typically get paid net-60, you're actually working for a quarter for nothing and hoping the company is still solvent to pay you. E.g. start working Jan 1st; bill for the month on Jan 31st. Net-60 means getting paid for that April 1st. You work 90 days on hope.
- cryoshon 11y ago
  That's pretty bad. Reminds me of Amazon's payment schemes for authors. Month ends, your pay is marked off-- and the check is in your bank account long, long after, allowing them to have more liquidity at your expense.
dasmoth 11y ago
> For instance, you don't go to the store, take a can of WD-40 home, use it, then go back to the store to pay for the can. That's true, but may have more to do with an unwillingness to track a squillion IOUs for individual cans of WD-40 than a sign of a fundamental difference. Were you a company buying a pallet of the stuff, things would be different. (That said, if I pay by credit card it'll be at least a month before the card issuer thinks about charging me interest, so things aren't so very different as an individual, either...)
wang_li 11y ago
>Labor isn't the same as other commodities, Depends on the relationship. Instead of a hotel, say you decided that you enjoy a massage and after some research you find a license therapist in your area and you have a trial massage and, having appreciated said massage, you decide to establish twice weekly massages. So you talk with the therapist and establish a nice $125/hour rate for them to come to your house every Tuesday and Thursday at 2:00pm for an hour massage. Having negotiated a rate, you agree that this is an ongoing deal until one or the other of you decides to cancel it. Now, you've agreed to effectively $1,000/month salary for this person. Are you really going to go ahead and pay them the agreed upon $1,000/month even though they: a) catch a virus and are unable to come for two weeks. b) take a vacation to Pittsburgh and are not going to be there next Thursday. c) have a child and aren't going to be coming to give your massage for the next six, eight, or ten weeks? d) have signed up extra clients and will reach sixty hours by Thursday morning, so they won't be able to provide their Thursday afternoon or Friday appointments due to hard limits on overtime. e) now that they have a kid, you're going to pay an extra $10 per session for child care. For some reason, my gut feeling is that you're not going to do any of those things and instead put it on the therapist to manage their business and accept that they will get paid for services rendered and nothing else.

swalsh 11y ago

I bet you don't have kids, or aren't currently thinking through the logistics of having them. Your mind games just don't apply equally to labor.

escherize 11y ago
I'm curious about what your argument is, since "think about having children though" and stating an opposite position doesn't lead anywhere.
- mnglkhn2 11y ago
  Kids have to be picked up at 3pm or, if you want to keep them for the whole day in school, at 5pm. Unless you hire a nanny, 5pm becomes a hard stop for you, no matter what start-up life you dream of having. Then, during the week-end, your guilt of not spending too much time during the week will eat at you and you will try and to use most of the free time with your kid(s). Or, you can decide not to get involved too much with your kinds, eventually shipping them off to a boarding school. even for that, you have to pay dearly.

michael_h 11y ago

Absolutely! The hotels I usually stay at have: * a business center with pc/printer/fax machine * a gym * a 'meet-and-greet' with complimentary beverages * an inexplicable twice a day cleaning schedule * tennis/basketball courts * shuttle service * cable television All of which I do not use, but are definitely included in their overhead costs and passed on to me, the consumer.