4 ms·

Our startup was created in France 2,5 years ago. Here is our experience: Some of us started working on the project while getting unemployment benefits (huge bo

by david_p 11y ago

Our startup was created in France 2,5 years ago. Here is our experience: Some of us started working on the project while getting unemployment benefits (huge boost). We get (very) affordable office spaces from the city and various incubators (we are located in Paris). We are able to live on first customers + 0% loans from the state + hundreds of thousands of euros in various grants for innovation (http://www.bpifrance.fr/ http://www.bpifrance.fr/), so we don't need to dilute our shares by raising funds too early. We get no income taxes for the first years. Employees have social security. Healthcare is cheap and very good. Why would we want to start run company anywhere else?

vixen99 11y ago
So one wonders why there's a problem because evidently there is.
- david_p 11y ago
  Could you elaborate? Because I see this: http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/01/blablacar-raises-a-massive-100-million-round-to-create-a-global-ride-sharing-network/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/01/blablacar-raises-a-massive-... And this: http://1000startups.fr/?lang=en http://1000startups.fr/?lang=en And I see Paris being startup-heaven in a couple of years. And things are already pretty nice!
fche 11y ago
That degree of risk-eliminating subsidy should indeed light a fire under entrepreneurship (while the gravy train can keep moving). Do you suppose the benefits are commesurate with the costs? IOW, are there enough new companies thusly incubated that become self-supporting or better?
- david_p 11y ago
  What would you say are the costs to compare to the benefits? In my opinion, it would have be extremely difficult to bootstrap our company anywhere else. As everyone knows, getting out of cash is what kills early stage companies. We go access to "free cash" (0% loans and more than 100k€ in grants) and some of our employees got paid on unemployment benefits .. I mean, how much further could you go? We survived thank to this benefits.
gozo 11y ago
"Why would we want to start run company anywhere else?" Rent? And living expenses in general. It's going to be you largest expense bootstrapping, especially since it's post tax. It also gets harder to invite people you know to come work with you and getting a larger/better suited apartment in general (location, contract terns, layout, furnished etc). Not that this is that different from other big cities and I personally think Paris is one of the few that lives up to the hype. Still not preferred for early startups.
- meatysnapper 11y ago
  In Berlin apartments are absurdly cheap. You can live on < 1000 euros a month nicely. Contrast that with SF where you have your media $3700 a month apartment!
- david_p 11y ago
  If you look at the rent, Paris is actually much cheaper than London, NYC and SF. You could go to Berlin of course. Frankly, if you are an early stage startup with young people Paris is not the cheapest, but you have access to everything: public transportation is free if you are officially unemployed and living with roommates can make everything much cheaper!
nip 11y ago
Fellow french here. I left France last year officially to finish my studies, unofficially to launch my startup. Where? In Estonia: - 250€ for the rent in a shared flat, everything included (winter time, so more 200€ the rest of the year) 10min by feet from the city center, in the most vibrant district. - Free public transportation (but Tallinn being a human-sized city, it doesn't really matter). - I incorporated and activated my bank account from my couch. - Bureaucracy is close to non-existent here. When there is some, it's online (I was advised to register our trademark online by the councelor I was having a meeting with, we were in his office. His words: "it's simpler online"). - Offices are extremely affordable, the tech scene is small but really active and friendly (much like the rest of Estonia, you end up knowing everyone here: think Kevin Bacon degrees on steroids). Estonia has drawbacks of course, just like every other country but far less than France in my book. Don't get me wrong, I love France, but being a lucky european citizen, I decided to move abroad as I don't want to have to go physically somewhere to get a stamp, or send out 10 documents everytime I need to apply / get something (be it ID, passport, transportation card, renting a new flat, etc): I already have a work! :)
- digikata 11y ago
  How does healthcare work there?
  - nip 11y ago
    Much like other european countries, compulsory "solidarity" through social taxes. As for the quality of the health care system, I have been lucky not to pay them a visit yet :) I was told that it's good though. If you want more informations regarding the tax system: http://www.investinestonia.com/en/investment-guide/tax-system http://www.investinestonia.com/en/investment-guide/tax-syste...
S4M 11y ago
French expat here, considering coming back. I just checked bpifrance.fr you linked, and... it's really badly designed. The navigation is really made really complex (you need to know exactly what you are looking for in order to get the information to it, and you can't go back without changing the URL of the page) and the page is slow as hell. I may still come back to France, but this page is not encouraging.
- david_p 11y ago
  This is free money man, pick up your phone and call them instead of complaining about their website design :)
- david_p 11y ago
  You comment is actually pretty interesting. I see a lot of French people convinced that France is worse than anywhere else in the world. Everything that is done in France is seen as "not good enough" by many French. It's an attitude problem and might be the reason why so many of us move away, convinced that "things are better out there". Maybe the biggest problem with having the state do so much for us is that it makes many people act like spoiled kids: they see things as not-perfect-enough and are easily discouraged.

by david_p 11y ago

vixen99 11y ago

So one wonders why there's a problem because evidently there is.

david_p 11y ago
Could you elaborate? Because I see this: http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/01/blablacar-raises-a-massive-100-million-round-to-create-a-global-ride-sharing-network/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/01/blablacar-raises-a-massive-... And this: http://1000startups.fr/?lang=en http://1000startups.fr/?lang=en And I see Paris being startup-heaven in a couple of years. And things are already pretty nice!

fche 11y ago

That degree of risk-eliminating subsidy should indeed light a fire under entrepreneurship (while the gravy train can keep moving). Do you suppose the benefits are commesurate with the costs? IOW, are there enough new companies thusly incubated that become self-supporting or better?

david_p 11y ago
What would you say are the costs to compare to the benefits? In my opinion, it would have be extremely difficult to bootstrap our company anywhere else. As everyone knows, getting out of cash is what kills early stage companies. We go access to "free cash" (0% loans and more than 100k€ in grants) and some of our employees got paid on unemployment benefits .. I mean, how much further could you go? We survived thank to this benefits.

gozo 11y ago

"Why would we want to start run company anywhere else?" Rent? And living expenses in general. It's going to be you largest expense bootstrapping, especially since it's post tax. It also gets harder to invite people you know to come work with you and getting a larger/better suited apartment in general (location, contract terns, layout, furnished etc). Not that this is that different from other big cities and I personally think Paris is one of the few that lives up to the hype. Still not preferred for early startups.

meatysnapper 11y ago
In Berlin apartments are absurdly cheap. You can live on < 1000 euros a month nicely. Contrast that with SF where you have your media $3700 a month apartment!
david_p 11y ago
If you look at the rent, Paris is actually much cheaper than London, NYC and SF. You could go to Berlin of course. Frankly, if you are an early stage startup with young people Paris is not the cheapest, but you have access to everything: public transportation is free if you are officially unemployed and living with roommates can make everything much cheaper!

nip 11y ago

Fellow french here. I left France last year officially to finish my studies, unofficially to launch my startup. Where? In Estonia: - 250€ for the rent in a shared flat, everything included (winter time, so more 200€ the rest of the year) 10min by feet from the city center, in the most vibrant district. - Free public transportation (but Tallinn being a human-sized city, it doesn't really matter). - I incorporated and activated my bank account from my couch. - Bureaucracy is close to non-existent here. When there is some, it's online (I was advised to register our trademark online by the councelor I was having a meeting with, we were in his office. His words: "it's simpler online"). - Offices are extremely affordable, the tech scene is small but really active and friendly (much like the rest of Estonia, you end up knowing everyone here: think Kevin Bacon degrees on steroids). Estonia has drawbacks of course, just like every other country but far less than France in my book. Don't get me wrong, I love France, but being a lucky european citizen, I decided to move abroad as I don't want to have to go physically somewhere to get a stamp, or send out 10 documents everytime I need to apply / get something (be it ID, passport, transportation card, renting a new flat, etc): I already have a work! :)

digikata 11y ago
How does healthcare work there?
- nip 11y ago
  Much like other european countries, compulsory "solidarity" through social taxes. As for the quality of the health care system, I have been lucky not to pay them a visit yet :) I was told that it's good though. If you want more informations regarding the tax system: http://www.investinestonia.com/en/investment-guide/tax-system http://www.investinestonia.com/en/investment-guide/tax-syste...

S4M 11y ago

French expat here, considering coming back. I just checked bpifrance.fr you linked, and... it's really badly designed. The navigation is really made really complex (you need to know exactly what you are looking for in order to get the information to it, and you can't go back without changing the URL of the page) and the page is slow as hell. I may still come back to France, but this page is not encouraging.

david_p 11y ago
This is free money man, pick up your phone and call them instead of complaining about their website design :)
david_p 11y ago
You comment is actually pretty interesting. I see a lot of French people convinced that France is worse than anywhere else in the world. Everything that is done in France is seen as "not good enough" by many French. It's an attitude problem and might be the reason why so many of us move away, convinced that "things are better out there". Maybe the biggest problem with having the state do so much for us is that it makes many people act like spoiled kids: they see things as not-perfect-enough and are easily discouraged.