3 ms·

I see Germany's move to reinstate border controls as a way to pressure Hungary and to some extent Slovakia to agree to a quota spread of refugees. I think the g

I see Germany's move to reinstate border controls as a way to pressure Hungary and to some extent Slovakia to agree to a quota spread of refugees. I think the german electorate would be easier to convince if they have a feeling all EU-members are pulling their weight. Hungary has responded with policies (detaining refugees, also working on laws to allow police violence against illegal border crossings) that are likely not compatible with international law and I can imagine a EU court will convict them in a few months. Unfortunately, the refugees will be the victim of this in the meantime. Also, I find the article overly dramatic, stating that "Free movement around 26 countries for 400 million Europeans is now seriously threatened.". Schengen has very little to do with the free movement of EU citizens, this was arranged by the Treaty of Maastricht and others. I do agree though that this is further evidence that solid european integration is still a far away dream and for now national interests take the lead when the shit hits the fan.

aries1980 11y ago
> Hungary has responded with policies (detaining refugees, also working on laws to allow police violence against illegal border crossings) that are likely not compatible with international law and I can imagine a EU court will convict them in a few months. Unfortunately, the refugees will be the victim of this in the meantime. The issue here is hard to define who refugee and who is not. There are offices at the major border towns where refugees can register. They show their paper, give fingerprint (which is mandatory for Hungarian citizens as well to receive a passport). The issue is as a British (ITV) reporter tweeted: https://twitter.com/jamesmatesitv/status/639703633794351104 https://twitter.com/jamesmatesitv/status/639703633794351104 is some of the refugees are "interested in" wealthy countries only, so they refuse to register in Hungary. There are laws and international agreements that binds the border countries to behave like Hungary. Also "police violence" means you are referring to is the European way of police violence: web and in worst case tear gas and water cannon.
- pas 11y ago
  police violence means using that nasty steel baton that is absolutely not part of the official police toolkit: http://40.media.tumblr.com/e19f9630bcbbb5699b4d3f1c23308a57/tumblr_nutguyPf9D1qauqxso1_1280.jpg http://40.media.tumblr.com/e19f9630bcbbb5699b4d3f1c23308a57/... the migrant vs refugee issue is moot. anyone can clam to be from Syria or Afghanistan. the problem is - again - simple economics, or how to hillclimb from this local optimum to a globally higher one? currently people living in the million-populated refugee camps in Turkey are not allowed to work (as it would likely crash the local labor market). so we have a completely devastated economy (thanks to a long drought driving farmers out of work and subsequently into the cities where authorities harshly responded when these people voiced their problems, and bamm! you have a civil war, which is bad for business), and a lot of unemployment with extreme mobility/flexibility (after all, why would they stay in a war zone? so their preferences are driven to the extremes, which means they are not picky - see the people going through countless bags of small pepper and clean them of that small stem part that remains on them after picking from the field) distributing the people (the proposed quota system) will probably help, and the migrants-refugees will at least participate in a more efficient economy, so if I want to be really deadpan and cold-hearted I can just state that globally things are going to be better, we just have to ride this temporary setback through while Assad & Co. goes through their bankruptcy process with their lenders (the people).
  - aries1980 11y ago
    That image is about anti-terrorist officer (TEK), and baton is their regular sidearm. I guess they will be there until the regular army and the newly formed frontier companies arrive.
    - pas 11y ago
      I just looked up the relevant ordinance/statue, and it only describes a "police stick" without going into details. Their regular sidearm is not the expandable steel one. (They usually carry submachineguns, after all, they are usually targeting armed criminals, not a mass of people trying to force their way through a border crossing.) Naturally, the problem is not the intent, but the incompetence of the execution.

aries1980 11y ago

> Hungary has responded with policies (detaining refugees, also working on laws to allow police violence against illegal border crossings) that are likely not compatible with international law and I can imagine a EU court will convict them in a few months. Unfortunately, the refugees will be the victim of this in the meantime. The issue here is hard to define who refugee and who is not. There are offices at the major border towns where refugees can register. They show their paper, give fingerprint (which is mandatory for Hungarian citizens as well to receive a passport). The issue is as a British (ITV) reporter tweeted: https://twitter.com/jamesmatesitv/status/639703633794351104 https://twitter.com/jamesmatesitv/status/639703633794351104 is some of the refugees are "interested in" wealthy countries only, so they refuse to register in Hungary. There are laws and international agreements that binds the border countries to behave like Hungary. Also "police violence" means you are referring to is the European way of police violence: web and in worst case tear gas and water cannon.

pas 11y ago
police violence means using that nasty steel baton that is absolutely not part of the official police toolkit: http://40.media.tumblr.com/e19f9630bcbbb5699b4d3f1c23308a57/tumblr_nutguyPf9D1qauqxso1_1280.jpg http://40.media.tumblr.com/e19f9630bcbbb5699b4d3f1c23308a57/... the migrant vs refugee issue is moot. anyone can clam to be from Syria or Afghanistan. the problem is - again - simple economics, or how to hillclimb from this local optimum to a globally higher one? currently people living in the million-populated refugee camps in Turkey are not allowed to work (as it would likely crash the local labor market). so we have a completely devastated economy (thanks to a long drought driving farmers out of work and subsequently into the cities where authorities harshly responded when these people voiced their problems, and bamm! you have a civil war, which is bad for business), and a lot of unemployment with extreme mobility/flexibility (after all, why would they stay in a war zone? so their preferences are driven to the extremes, which means they are not picky - see the people going through countless bags of small pepper and clean them of that small stem part that remains on them after picking from the field) distributing the people (the proposed quota system) will probably help, and the migrants-refugees will at least participate in a more efficient economy, so if I want to be really deadpan and cold-hearted I can just state that globally things are going to be better, we just have to ride this temporary setback through while Assad & Co. goes through their bankruptcy process with their lenders (the people).
- aries1980 11y ago
  That image is about anti-terrorist officer (TEK), and baton is their regular sidearm. I guess they will be there until the regular army and the newly formed frontier companies arrive.
  - pas 11y ago
    I just looked up the relevant ordinance/statue, and it only describes a "police stick" without going into details. Their regular sidearm is not the expandable steel one. (They usually carry submachineguns, after all, they are usually targeting armed criminals, not a mass of people trying to force their way through a border crossing.) Naturally, the problem is not the intent, but the incompetence of the execution.