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Anybody here actually make it all the way through "Decline and Fall"? I've tried a couple of times but given up each time.

rodgerd 11y ago
As a piece of writing it's excellent. Quoting it in the company of (most) contemporary historians is not going to end well, though.
- AnimalMuppet 11y ago
  Why?
  - chipsy 11y ago
    Because contemporary historiography has moved on and refutes many of Gibbon's propositions. So Decline and Fall is a good read, but also old enough to be a part of history itself.
    - eruditely 11y ago
      Which parts are refuted?
    - chipsy 11y ago
      Examples of contemporary Gibbon discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/10xtf2/theory_thursdays_edward_gibbon_and_the_decline/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/10xtf2/theor...
      - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
        That doesn't refute Gibbon's position. At best, it shows opinions to be divided.
rhema 11y ago
I did via audiobook. It's much easier to passively listen until you find something interesting. There are so many little stories in history. For example, leaders of armies burning their own ships as soon as they make landfall. This forces their soldiers to fight or die. The conquistadors who followed this pattern (sinking instead of burning) their ships did not come up with the idea on their own. They drew from history.
TomDavey 11y ago
I've read Volume 1 of "Decline and Fall" twice: once when assigned it in college, and afterward on my own from love. I'm eager to make the time to read the other two volumes, as lucky Jason Epstein did. It is hard to overpraise the gorgeous prose, the mordant wit, the sheer intelligence, and the stunning ambition of the work. It is close to unique in English literature. Did I mention the mordant wit? Someone once described Decline and Fall as "the funniest serious book in English." I would agree. Hypocrites are the favorite target of Gibbon's irony, which is why the book scandalized all of Europe: The ranks of the bishops and other ecclesiastics in early Christianity did not lack for cynical hypocrites, ripe for the mocking as only Gibbon, deadpan, could do. The zingers are often stashed away in the footnotes, something that David Foster Wallace must have noticed. Not least, the guy pretty much invented modern evidence-based historiography, in which primary sources are weighed and compared. And he followed his reasoning wherever it led him. To me Gibbon represents the best of the Enlightenment.
GnarfGnarf 11y ago
I read Vol. 1 on an audiobook from Audible.com, while out on walks. It was slow going at times because of Gibbon's style, but it was entertaining. One of my favourite lines was: "...it was an inflexible maxim of Roman discipline, that a good soldier should dread his officers far more than the enemy."
EdwardCoffin 11y ago
I read the whole thing, in fits and starts. I think it took around five years, though there were some stretches of longer than a year when I didn't read any of it. I think it was a worthwhile exercise, and I'd like to do it again sometime.

rodgerd 11y ago

As a piece of writing it's excellent. Quoting it in the company of (most) contemporary historians is not going to end well, though.

AnimalMuppet 11y ago
Why?
- chipsy 11y ago
  Because contemporary historiography has moved on and refutes many of Gibbon's propositions. So Decline and Fall is a good read, but also old enough to be a part of history itself.
  - eruditely 11y ago
    Which parts are refuted?
  - chipsy 11y ago
    Examples of contemporary Gibbon discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/10xtf2/theory_thursdays_edward_gibbon_and_the_decline/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/10xtf2/theor...
    - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
      That doesn't refute Gibbon's position. At best, it shows opinions to be divided.

rhema 11y ago

I did via audiobook. It's much easier to passively listen until you find something interesting. There are so many little stories in history. For example, leaders of armies burning their own ships as soon as they make landfall. This forces their soldiers to fight or die. The conquistadors who followed this pattern (sinking instead of burning) their ships did not come up with the idea on their own. They drew from history.

TomDavey 11y ago

I've read Volume 1 of "Decline and Fall" twice: once when assigned it in college, and afterward on my own from love. I'm eager to make the time to read the other two volumes, as lucky Jason Epstein did. It is hard to overpraise the gorgeous prose, the mordant wit, the sheer intelligence, and the stunning ambition of the work. It is close to unique in English literature. Did I mention the mordant wit? Someone once described Decline and Fall as "the funniest serious book in English." I would agree. Hypocrites are the favorite target of Gibbon's irony, which is why the book scandalized all of Europe: The ranks of the bishops and other ecclesiastics in early Christianity did not lack for cynical hypocrites, ripe for the mocking as only Gibbon, deadpan, could do. The zingers are often stashed away in the footnotes, something that David Foster Wallace must have noticed. Not least, the guy pretty much invented modern evidence-based historiography, in which primary sources are weighed and compared. And he followed his reasoning wherever it led him. To me Gibbon represents the best of the Enlightenment.

GnarfGnarf 11y ago

I read Vol. 1 on an audiobook from Audible.com, while out on walks. It was slow going at times because of Gibbon's style, but it was entertaining. One of my favourite lines was: "...it was an inflexible maxim of Roman discipline, that a good soldier should dread his officers far more than the enemy."

EdwardCoffin 11y ago

I read the whole thing, in fits and starts. I think it took around five years, though there were some stretches of longer than a year when I didn't read any of it. I think it was a worthwhile exercise, and I'd like to do it again sometime.