45 ms·

There is no Delaware. Taxes are paid regardless of whether the company hits $1M revenue or not, salary taxes are high, health/social insurance is mandatory and

by bitL 11y ago

There is no Delaware. Taxes are paid regardless of whether the company hits $1M revenue or not, salary taxes are high, health/social insurance is mandatory and paid for the most part by the employer, there is a minimal salary, extensive bureaucracy and you can't sign away most of your rights if necessary for company survival. Moreover, some countries impose rules which make starting up with little to no money impossible (Germany).

robk 11y ago
Plenty of companies can incorporate offshore though. That's probably easier than in the US.
- briandear 11y ago
  You could incorporate offshore but good luck getting a local bank account or even an offshore one. To do anything in France you have to be incorporated in France and pay French taxes.
  - robk 11y ago
    Typically you'd create the topco in the UK or offshore and create an operating company in France for that purpose.
    - pluma 11y ago
      And now you've just increased your administrative overhead and costs. Tax evasion tends to be pretty expensive unless you can afford it.
s73v3r 11y ago
"and you can't sign away most of your rights if necessary for company survival. " I don't believe for a second that someone signing away their rights is necessary for company survival. Maybe you as a company leader need to do a better job so you don't come to that point, and if you have, then maybe you aren't fit to run a company.
- bitL 11y ago
  This doesn't have anything to do with my preferences; frankly I am disgusted by it, but it's a common practice in the US to sign away the rights if you want to get funded by many VCs. So those VCs obviously prefer US as they can't (if "necessary") do the same shady moves in Europe (yet).
  - ianstallings 11y ago
    What rights do I sign away when I bring in VC as investors? I've never seen this as "common practice" here in the states so I'm genuinely baffled. The most aggressive thing I've seen them is to demand a part in future rounds via prorata rights.
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    I assume he was talking about worker's rights.
- caskance 11y ago
  The end result being that fewer people are fit to run companies in Europe, so they run them in the US instead.
pluma 11y ago
> some countries impose rules which make starting up with little to no money impossible You mean the € 25k required to found a German LLC (GmbH)? As of a few years ago it's possible to found one with a single euro as long as you use a certain fixed percentage of the profits to built the company's capital (the company remains "UG (haftungsbeschränkt)" until you accumulate the € 25k, then you can transform it into a "proper" GmbH). The paperwork involved (including notary and lawyer/accountant fees) still mean you should have about € 2k disposable before you incorporate, though -- not to mention the ~ € 500 you may accidentally pay scammers if you're not careful. That said, Facebook and similar startups couldn't have started in Germany simply because of German privacy laws. At least once a week I hear of a new US product or start up that simply wouldn't pass basic privacy checks in Germany.

by bitL 11y ago

robk 11y ago

Plenty of companies can incorporate offshore though. That's probably easier than in the US.

briandear 11y ago
You could incorporate offshore but good luck getting a local bank account or even an offshore one. To do anything in France you have to be incorporated in France and pay French taxes.
- robk 11y ago
  Typically you'd create the topco in the UK or offshore and create an operating company in France for that purpose.
  - pluma 11y ago
    And now you've just increased your administrative overhead and costs. Tax evasion tends to be pretty expensive unless you can afford it.

s73v3r 11y ago

"and you can't sign away most of your rights if necessary for company survival. " I don't believe for a second that someone signing away their rights is necessary for company survival. Maybe you as a company leader need to do a better job so you don't come to that point, and if you have, then maybe you aren't fit to run a company.

bitL 11y ago
This doesn't have anything to do with my preferences; frankly I am disgusted by it, but it's a common practice in the US to sign away the rights if you want to get funded by many VCs. So those VCs obviously prefer US as they can't (if "necessary") do the same shady moves in Europe (yet).
- ianstallings 11y ago
  What rights do I sign away when I bring in VC as investors? I've never seen this as "common practice" here in the states so I'm genuinely baffled. The most aggressive thing I've seen them is to demand a part in future rounds via prorata rights.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  I assume he was talking about worker's rights.
caskance 11y ago
The end result being that fewer people are fit to run companies in Europe, so they run them in the US instead.

pluma 11y ago

> some countries impose rules which make starting up with little to no money impossible You mean the € 25k required to found a German LLC (GmbH)? As of a few years ago it's possible to found one with a single euro as long as you use a certain fixed percentage of the profits to built the company's capital (the company remains "UG (haftungsbeschränkt)" until you accumulate the € 25k, then you can transform it into a "proper" GmbH). The paperwork involved (including notary and lawyer/accountant fees) still mean you should have about € 2k disposable before you incorporate, though -- not to mention the ~ € 500 you may accidentally pay scammers if you're not careful. That said, Facebook and similar startups couldn't have started in Germany simply because of German privacy laws. At least once a week I hear of a new US product or start up that simply wouldn't pass basic privacy checks in Germany.