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Don't "I hate politics." Get more involved. There are people who only see positives in tax cuts and hate "BIG GOVERNMENT" means we don't have money to spend on

by baldfat 11y ago

Don't "I hate politics." Get more involved. There are people who only see positives in tax cuts and hate "BIG GOVERNMENT" means we don't have money to spend on science that benefits humanity. Best thing people can do who don't like what is happening with their tax money is to vote and be vocal. If you negate yourself into I hate politics you reinforce the need to feed the proponents your disagree with.

podgib 11y ago
Thank you. If there's anything worse than apathy, it's people who get frustrated with outcomes from politics, but do nothing but express how much they dislike politicians. Decrying the whole process and staying away from it is the best way to ensure that power stays in the hands of those whose decisions you dislike so much.
- fsg7sdfg789 11y ago
  Personally, I believe the political system is structured in such a way as to make changes impossible. This is a feature, not a bug. The inertia of the system protects us against mob rule. It also means that as much as change is inevitable, it is also completely outside the control of one person, party, or special interest group. Instead, I choose to optimize for my own happiness. Politics, especially because you're just shouting against the rain, makes me incredibly unhappy, so I avoid it. Others are free to spend their time as they wish, but I am simultaneously cynical about the system and as removed and detached from it as I can be in order to focus on my own happiness.
  - baldfat 11y ago
    We are not a Democracy in America we are a Democracy/Republic leaning a lot on the side of Republic. Don't avoid just voting and making sure people pay attention to you as opposed to the Rich White Elderly that get Medicade and Social Security could possibly be because they are the majority of the voters. When I help in campaigns I always focus on super voters. I knock on every door. They are white and wealthy. Working class I know one out of every 100 doors maybe?
mkaziz 11y ago
Weren't there a few studies on HN that basically show the US government is for all intents and purposes a plutocracy? How will my voice matter?
- baldfat 11y ago
  Your vote doesn't matter in Presidential Elections the chances of a state changing its color is slim to none unless your Ohio, Florida or another possible swing state. Your local politics is where things happen. In my city I ran for School Board (lost by 400 votes but will run again). The turn out was 11%! Everyone HATES our Public School System here in my city due to a number of factors but no one votes. So if you want to get open data for your town city you can do that. (That is what I was running for was open data and government in my school district and now the whole thing is getting audited by the state to see if they comply with the Sunshine Law (They don't)).
  - mkaziz 11y ago
    Oh interesting, I see your perspective. Is being on the school board something you do on the side, or is it a (paid?) part time job?
logfromblammo 11y ago
Have you ever played a game after reading the rules and determining that it is mathematically impossible for you to win? Politics will never cease to be a complete waste of time for some people until the rules are changed such that all evidence of their participation is not completely eradicated before the results are determined. Should all those people who vote Green or Libertarian or Constitution parties in their U.S. elections just double down on their efforts and vote harder? Should they steer even more conversations into long-winded tirades about politics? I have sampled the "getting more involved" tactic. It is worse than a waste of time. Sometimes you suffer retaliation for "rubbing the cat the wrong way". If you want to make a difference, vote with your feet, and vote with your wallet. Voting with your vote only lends support to those who believe that voting means you must meekly accept the results. It seems odd to suggest that if you hate something, you should do it more. If you truly despite politics, you should be exploring other means to accomplish your goals. Start a nonprofit business. Create an advocacy group. Create a community nexus for like-minded individuals to trade ideas. Write a book that browbeats your personal opinions into the reader with the help of a flimsy sci-fi plot line. Hell, create a for-profit business, and spend the profits on the thing you wanted the government to do.
- baldfat 11y ago
  > I have sampled the "getting more involved" tactic. It is worse than a waste of time. Well than kill democracy and invent a new government system. Voting is the most important part of a Democracy. To what end is your point now? No one voting but a few and they decide the election???? "I hate politics!" does not mean I hate voting. Voting is making your statement of yes or no. > Sometimes you suffer retaliation for "rubbing the cat the wrong way". Voting is silent and no one knows what you voted for. If you live in a Democracy you have to vote. If you are fine with Democracy dying than don't vote especially in local elections.
  - logfromblammo 11y ago
    I do hope you realize that there is far more to politics than the voting part. By the time anyone even sees a ballot, dozens of meetings have already been conducted, both public and private. Participation in those meetings has a far greater effect than the results of the subsequent vote. Parliamentary procedures and rules of order are routinely used to prevent proposals from ever getting to a vote. Don't conflate voting with democracy. It is but one element in a much larger tangle of worms, and it is emphatically not the most important. If you ever do more in politics than just show up to mark ballots, you may see the retaliation in action. The cloud video services have plenty of examples, mostly from open records activists who do little more than just show up to public places with their cameras. Protests, complaints, and petitions for redress are also part of democracy. Have you ever walked in to a police station and asked for an official complaint form? Depending on your locale, that may be a very easy way to experience petty retaliation firsthand.
Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
Given how the political system is set up, it's not surprising that we get the "I hate politics" responses. In most states, your Presidential vote is already decided for you. A Republican in New York might as well not vote, and a Democrat in Alabama ought to stay home. In most Congressional districts, the party has so gerrymandered the districts that it's easier to dislodge communist dictators than defeat the incumbent party. Even if the above weren't true, our voting system encourages a two-party system with its winner-take-all rules, so third parties like the Green Party or Libertarian Party aren't as popular as they might otherwise be because of the 'wasting your vote' phenomenon.
- ecobiker 11y ago
  Voting is only a small part of participating in the political system. As an outsider, I find people here in the US (or probably just SF) to be more active for their causes. But it's not enough. There is no easy tech solution here. People have to have their voices heard. Otherwise, voting is useless. You can only choose between the choices given to you not the choices you want.
- baldfat 11y ago
  For president yes your vote really doesn't decide much. In any system even if it was a popular vote you could still say the same thing. Vote locally. That is the root of our political system and where people can easily make a difference.
  - kosievdmerwe 11y ago
    For a straight up popular vote for president, your vote matters a lot more. In the US you can have (and have had) the case where someone can become president despite the majority wanting someone else.
    - baldfat 11y ago
      AND this is GOOD or else New York, Texas, Florida and California would get 90% of the presidential focus. Having a popular vote hurts nation wide groups and our current system is good. Also one the least impact votes you will cast will be for President he/she really does very little that impacts your day to day.
IndianAstronaut 11y ago
> Get more involved. http://www.planetary.org/sos http://www.planetary.org/sos The Planetary Society is one organization actively involved in promoting greater funding for space exploration.
mikeash 11y ago
Get involved how, exactly? I do vote. I have a hard time convincing myself that it's even worth the time it takes to do so, but I do it. I've tried writing to my representatives to express my views. I get form letters in response, with absolutely no indication that my voice has been taken into account in even the smallest way. People say you should get involved in local party meetings and such, but there are no viable parties that I agree with even remotely, and in any case I'd rather stab myself in the eyeballs with a toothpick than attend such meetings.
- NegativeK 11y ago
  > I get form letters in response, with absolutely no indication that my voice has been taken into account in even the smallest way. They listen; they just don't have the staffing to write an individual response to every comment. Unfortunately, they listen by having a staffer say "We had X people contact us in favor of this; Y were opposed." But they do listen. Or: Our voices have been abstracted into sort of a reverse-poll thanks, in part, to technology. As an anecdote, the only time I had a staffer actually respond to my opinion with more than "I'll pass along your comment" was during the SOPA/PIPA call ins. The staffer I spoke to was clearly (and kind of understandably) irritated with the volume of calls and was somewhat short with me. I think everyone views that whole thing as an exception, though.
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    They listen; they just don't have the staffing to write an individual response to every comment. The latter statement really calls the first into question. Similarly, they care about my vote, except to the extent that it's completely lost in the noise of thousands of other votes.
    - TrevorJ 11y ago
      I can't prove it, but I imagine we'd be surprised at how few letters they actually get during parts of the election cycle. Depending on your district your congressman may be far more accessible than you think.
ddingus 11y ago
Seconded. I invest about 10 percent of my free time on civics. Speak or be spoken for by those who do.

by baldfat 11y ago

podgib 11y ago

Thank you. If there's anything worse than apathy, it's people who get frustrated with outcomes from politics, but do nothing but express how much they dislike politicians. Decrying the whole process and staying away from it is the best way to ensure that power stays in the hands of those whose decisions you dislike so much.

fsg7sdfg789 11y ago
Personally, I believe the political system is structured in such a way as to make changes impossible. This is a feature, not a bug. The inertia of the system protects us against mob rule. It also means that as much as change is inevitable, it is also completely outside the control of one person, party, or special interest group. Instead, I choose to optimize for my own happiness. Politics, especially because you're just shouting against the rain, makes me incredibly unhappy, so I avoid it. Others are free to spend their time as they wish, but I am simultaneously cynical about the system and as removed and detached from it as I can be in order to focus on my own happiness.
- baldfat 11y ago
  We are not a Democracy in America we are a Democracy/Republic leaning a lot on the side of Republic. Don't avoid just voting and making sure people pay attention to you as opposed to the Rich White Elderly that get Medicade and Social Security could possibly be because they are the majority of the voters. When I help in campaigns I always focus on super voters. I knock on every door. They are white and wealthy. Working class I know one out of every 100 doors maybe?

mkaziz 11y ago

Weren't there a few studies on HN that basically show the US government is for all intents and purposes a plutocracy? How will my voice matter?

baldfat 11y ago
Your vote doesn't matter in Presidential Elections the chances of a state changing its color is slim to none unless your Ohio, Florida or another possible swing state. Your local politics is where things happen. In my city I ran for School Board (lost by 400 votes but will run again). The turn out was 11%! Everyone HATES our Public School System here in my city due to a number of factors but no one votes. So if you want to get open data for your town city you can do that. (That is what I was running for was open data and government in my school district and now the whole thing is getting audited by the state to see if they comply with the Sunshine Law (They don't)).
- mkaziz 11y ago
  Oh interesting, I see your perspective. Is being on the school board something you do on the side, or is it a (paid?) part time job?

logfromblammo 11y ago

Have you ever played a game after reading the rules and determining that it is mathematically impossible for you to win? Politics will never cease to be a complete waste of time for some people until the rules are changed such that all evidence of their participation is not completely eradicated before the results are determined. Should all those people who vote Green or Libertarian or Constitution parties in their U.S. elections just double down on their efforts and vote harder? Should they steer even more conversations into long-winded tirades about politics? I have sampled the "getting more involved" tactic. It is worse than a waste of time. Sometimes you suffer retaliation for "rubbing the cat the wrong way". If you want to make a difference, vote with your feet, and vote with your wallet. Voting with your vote only lends support to those who believe that voting means you must meekly accept the results. It seems odd to suggest that if you hate something, you should do it more. If you truly despite politics, you should be exploring other means to accomplish your goals. Start a nonprofit business. Create an advocacy group. Create a community nexus for like-minded individuals to trade ideas. Write a book that browbeats your personal opinions into the reader with the help of a flimsy sci-fi plot line. Hell, create a for-profit business, and spend the profits on the thing you wanted the government to do.

baldfat 11y ago
> I have sampled the "getting more involved" tactic. It is worse than a waste of time. Well than kill democracy and invent a new government system. Voting is the most important part of a Democracy. To what end is your point now? No one voting but a few and they decide the election???? "I hate politics!" does not mean I hate voting. Voting is making your statement of yes or no. > Sometimes you suffer retaliation for "rubbing the cat the wrong way". Voting is silent and no one knows what you voted for. If you live in a Democracy you have to vote. If you are fine with Democracy dying than don't vote especially in local elections.
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  I do hope you realize that there is far more to politics than the voting part. By the time anyone even sees a ballot, dozens of meetings have already been conducted, both public and private. Participation in those meetings has a far greater effect than the results of the subsequent vote. Parliamentary procedures and rules of order are routinely used to prevent proposals from ever getting to a vote. Don't conflate voting with democracy. It is but one element in a much larger tangle of worms, and it is emphatically not the most important. If you ever do more in politics than just show up to mark ballots, you may see the retaliation in action. The cloud video services have plenty of examples, mostly from open records activists who do little more than just show up to public places with their cameras. Protests, complaints, and petitions for redress are also part of democracy. Have you ever walked in to a police station and asked for an official complaint form? Depending on your locale, that may be a very easy way to experience petty retaliation firsthand.

Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago

Given how the political system is set up, it's not surprising that we get the "I hate politics" responses. In most states, your Presidential vote is already decided for you. A Republican in New York might as well not vote, and a Democrat in Alabama ought to stay home. In most Congressional districts, the party has so gerrymandered the districts that it's easier to dislodge communist dictators than defeat the incumbent party. Even if the above weren't true, our voting system encourages a two-party system with its winner-take-all rules, so third parties like the Green Party or Libertarian Party aren't as popular as they might otherwise be because of the 'wasting your vote' phenomenon.

ecobiker 11y ago
Voting is only a small part of participating in the political system. As an outsider, I find people here in the US (or probably just SF) to be more active for their causes. But it's not enough. There is no easy tech solution here. People have to have their voices heard. Otherwise, voting is useless. You can only choose between the choices given to you not the choices you want.
baldfat 11y ago
For president yes your vote really doesn't decide much. In any system even if it was a popular vote you could still say the same thing. Vote locally. That is the root of our political system and where people can easily make a difference.
- kosievdmerwe 11y ago
  For a straight up popular vote for president, your vote matters a lot more. In the US you can have (and have had) the case where someone can become president despite the majority wanting someone else.
  - baldfat 11y ago
    AND this is GOOD or else New York, Texas, Florida and California would get 90% of the presidential focus. Having a popular vote hurts nation wide groups and our current system is good. Also one the least impact votes you will cast will be for President he/she really does very little that impacts your day to day.

IndianAstronaut 11y ago

> Get more involved. http://www.planetary.org/sos http://www.planetary.org/sos The Planetary Society is one organization actively involved in promoting greater funding for space exploration.

mikeash 11y ago

Get involved how, exactly? I do vote. I have a hard time convincing myself that it's even worth the time it takes to do so, but I do it. I've tried writing to my representatives to express my views. I get form letters in response, with absolutely no indication that my voice has been taken into account in even the smallest way. People say you should get involved in local party meetings and such, but there are no viable parties that I agree with even remotely, and in any case I'd rather stab myself in the eyeballs with a toothpick than attend such meetings.

NegativeK 11y ago
> I get form letters in response, with absolutely no indication that my voice has been taken into account in even the smallest way. They listen; they just don't have the staffing to write an individual response to every comment. Unfortunately, they listen by having a staffer say "We had X people contact us in favor of this; Y were opposed." But they do listen. Or: Our voices have been abstracted into sort of a reverse-poll thanks, in part, to technology. As an anecdote, the only time I had a staffer actually respond to my opinion with more than "I'll pass along your comment" was during the SOPA/PIPA call ins. The staffer I spoke to was clearly (and kind of understandably) irritated with the volume of calls and was somewhat short with me. I think everyone views that whole thing as an exception, though.
- jessaustin 11y ago
  They listen; they just don't have the staffing to write an individual response to every comment. The latter statement really calls the first into question. Similarly, they care about my vote, except to the extent that it's completely lost in the noise of thousands of other votes.
  - TrevorJ 11y ago
    I can't prove it, but I imagine we'd be surprised at how few letters they actually get during parts of the election cycle. Depending on your district your congressman may be far more accessible than you think.

ddingus 11y ago

Seconded. I invest about 10 percent of my free time on civics. Speak or be spoken for by those who do.