4 ms·

Why would lights be stressful? As to 'WWOOF', any organization that continues to perpetuate the myth that 'organic' means anything of value to anyone is one I'

by Latty 11y ago

Why would lights be stressful? As to 'WWOOF', any organization that continues to perpetuate the myth that 'organic' means anything of value to anyone is one I'm never going to like. 'Natural' is a dumb buzzword with no meaning that is useful when deciding what food is good. Yeah, let's cover our food with natural fertilizers that are less effective, sometimes dangerous, and more likely to run off into rivers and cause ecological damage, just so someone can think they are gaining something while spending more. Great.

johnchristopher 11y ago
There is also among `Woofers' a lot of people into <edit> natural/magical </edit> healing and clearly living in la-la-land. But guess what, that won't come into play when you move boxes of apples from the barn to the pig stable(? not sure of the word here). Be it organic or industrial or whatyacallit it's not a bad idea to sometimes get down on the ground to pick up vegetables for supper for a short 2-3 days farm trip. > Yeah, let's cover our food with natural fertilizers that are less effective, sometimes dangerous, and more likely to run off into rivers and cause ecological damage, Huhu, you totally know what you are talking about. For the record I am not into organic (but I am into the local food thingie, to each its own).
- Latty 11y ago
  I'm not saying natural things are bad, I'm saying 'natural' (and, by extension, 'organic') means nothing about if the product is safe, tasty, ecologically friendly, effective, local, etc... (all the things people traditionally tout organic food as) It's a nonsense bit of advertising, and anyone using it to imply their products are good either believes that or is trying to trick me - either way, I don't want to buy/be involved with that thing. > Huhu, you totally know what you are talking about. And why do you think I don't? If you think something I'm saying is wrong, please explain it to me so I can learn.
  - jMyles 11y ago
    > I'm saying 'natural' (and, by extension, 'organic') Why are you conflating "natural," which in this context is as meaningless as you say, with "organic," which is not? While I don't have confidence in the FDA to check or enforce the definition, it is defined for agricultural purposes in the USA. If you know someone that claims that their products are organic when in fact they aren't, you can report them. Here's some info: http://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/About%20the%20National%20Organic%20Program.pdf http://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/About%20th...
- jMyles 11y ago
  > holistic healing What's wrong with holistic healing? Perhaps you are thinking of homeopathy?
  - johnchristopher 11y ago
    My bad, I mixed up some wording when translating my thoughts on the fly, I wanted to refer to the whole chakra/mysticism/body-heals-itself and `holistic' came out (there must be some kind of cognitivo-linguistic explanation that would explain it but that'd be a poor excuse for what is essentially a lack of attention on my part).
    - magic_beans 11y ago
      I mean... all that "chakra" breathing actually has a dramatic effect on the parasympathetic nervous system and stress reactions. It's not all bullshit. Medicine came from somewhere.
      - johnchristopher 11y ago
        Did you miss the point on purpose ? Also: > [redacted out] breathing actually has a dramatic effect on the parasympathetic nervous system and stress reactions
      - RIMR 11y ago
        >all that "chakra" breathing actually has a dramatic effect on the parasympathetic nervous system and stress reactions. You aren't wrong, but that doesn't mean that "chakras" exist. Meditation is good for you, that's all. No magic here.
        jMyles 11y ago
        Are you saying that people who use the chakra abstraction to think about the human body are claiming that they have magical powers? That is not my experience. It's just an abstraction to ease consideration of the complexity. It's no different than dividing the body into "circulatory system," "endocrine system," etc. These designations are also not well-defined (ie, reasonable people disagree about whether various parts of the anatomy belong in one system or the other), but they make it much easier to learn about the body and how one can expect it to work. The chakras were created (ie, defined) in the 700s and have worked well for many people since that time. Nobody (that I know of) is claiming they are "magic."
jMyles 11y ago
> the myth that 'organic' means anything of value It is not a myth. While some organic food is very similar to food grown with orthodox farming techniques, most of it is not, and some is very, very different. I surmise that your contention is based on the Stanford study? Have you ever actually read the study yourself? Do you realize that its methodology is widely regarded as fundamentally flawed? Start here for a good review: http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pdfs/P2566.pdf http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pdfs/P2566.pdf ...and of course, the Stanford study is just one. Many other studies, which I and many others assert are of a superior design, have come to the opposite conclusion. This one is particularly compelling (sorry for the wordpress.com link, it's the only full text I can find online): https://donamarianadoces.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/nutritional-quality-organics2.pdf https://donamarianadoces.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/nutriti... Even if organic food weren't healthier - and for some foods, it certainly is - there are still other serious matters to consider, such as the sustainability of the farmland and the levels of exposure to farm workers. I agree about one flaw of "organic": that it is never a good idea to trust a government agency - especially the FDA - with food or drug safety advice without verifying it. Thus, the best way to ensure that your food meets your standard is to visit a local farm and ask about what fertilizers and pesticides are used. But that doesn't invalidate the entire 'organic' designation, which is in fact meaningful and significant.
- david-given 11y ago
  I'd interpret the parent's statement that the term organic does not necessarily mean anything of value. It does have a technical definition, which when applied strictly can have value, but it's also horribly abused as a feel-good term with no semantic content. (Just as 'holistic' is, looking elsewhere on the thread.) (One of my pet hates is 'organic salt'.)
  - jMyles 11y ago
    If you know of someone who is advertising products as organic when they aren't, I suggest reporting them to the local farmer's group, chamber of commerce, industry association, or (groan) the FDA. "Organic salt," although counter-intuitive, has a meaning: that the product does not have additives or anti-caking agents. (In some countries, the harvesting processing must also comport to environmental standards). Although the FDA does not certify salt as "organic," I believe that it still handles reports of salt that does contain additives or anti-caking agents being advertised as "organic." I'm not sure that it's reasonable to care whether salt is "organic," but it's not a capricious term. It's well-defined and easy to understand. Some other products, such as butter, are chemically quite distinct from their counterparts which are produced by orthodox techniques and quite worth caring about. It is easy to have these products lab tested to determine whether or not they are organic. If you eat butter, then switching to organic butter will remove a substantial mass of chemical pesticides, including organophosphate, prenatal exposure to which is known to cause some serious problems.
RIMR 11y ago
>Why would lights be stressful? There's a great deal of evidence that flashing unnatural light sources have negative effects on animals. Do you have any evidence that this isn't stressful to animals?

by Latty 11y ago

johnchristopher 11y ago

There is also among `Woofers' a lot of people into <edit> natural/magical </edit> healing and clearly living in la-la-land. But guess what, that won't come into play when you move boxes of apples from the barn to the pig stable(? not sure of the word here). Be it organic or industrial or whatyacallit it's not a bad idea to sometimes get down on the ground to pick up vegetables for supper for a short 2-3 days farm trip. > Yeah, let's cover our food with natural fertilizers that are less effective, sometimes dangerous, and more likely to run off into rivers and cause ecological damage, Huhu, you totally know what you are talking about. For the record I am not into organic (but I am into the local food thingie, to each its own).

Latty 11y ago
I'm not saying natural things are bad, I'm saying 'natural' (and, by extension, 'organic') means nothing about if the product is safe, tasty, ecologically friendly, effective, local, etc... (all the things people traditionally tout organic food as) It's a nonsense bit of advertising, and anyone using it to imply their products are good either believes that or is trying to trick me - either way, I don't want to buy/be involved with that thing. > Huhu, you totally know what you are talking about. And why do you think I don't? If you think something I'm saying is wrong, please explain it to me so I can learn.
- jMyles 11y ago
  > I'm saying 'natural' (and, by extension, 'organic') Why are you conflating "natural," which in this context is as meaningless as you say, with "organic," which is not? While I don't have confidence in the FDA to check or enforce the definition, it is defined for agricultural purposes in the USA. If you know someone that claims that their products are organic when in fact they aren't, you can report them. Here's some info: http://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/About%20the%20National%20Organic%20Program.pdf http://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/About%20th...
jMyles 11y ago
> holistic healing What's wrong with holistic healing? Perhaps you are thinking of homeopathy?
- johnchristopher 11y ago
  My bad, I mixed up some wording when translating my thoughts on the fly, I wanted to refer to the whole chakra/mysticism/body-heals-itself and `holistic' came out (there must be some kind of cognitivo-linguistic explanation that would explain it but that'd be a poor excuse for what is essentially a lack of attention on my part).
  - magic_beans 11y ago
    I mean... all that "chakra" breathing actually has a dramatic effect on the parasympathetic nervous system and stress reactions. It's not all bullshit. Medicine came from somewhere.
    - johnchristopher 11y ago
      Did you miss the point on purpose ? Also: > [redacted out] breathing actually has a dramatic effect on the parasympathetic nervous system and stress reactions
    - RIMR 11y ago
      >all that "chakra" breathing actually has a dramatic effect on the parasympathetic nervous system and stress reactions. You aren't wrong, but that doesn't mean that "chakras" exist. Meditation is good for you, that's all. No magic here.
      - jMyles 11y ago
        Are you saying that people who use the chakra abstraction to think about the human body are claiming that they have magical powers? That is not my experience. It's just an abstraction to ease consideration of the complexity. It's no different than dividing the body into "circulatory system," "endocrine system," etc. These designations are also not well-defined (ie, reasonable people disagree about whether various parts of the anatomy belong in one system or the other), but they make it much easier to learn about the body and how one can expect it to work. The chakras were created (ie, defined) in the 700s and have worked well for many people since that time. Nobody (that I know of) is claiming they are "magic."

jMyles 11y ago

> the myth that 'organic' means anything of value It is not a myth. While some organic food is very similar to food grown with orthodox farming techniques, most of it is not, and some is very, very different. I surmise that your contention is based on the Stanford study? Have you ever actually read the study yourself? Do you realize that its methodology is widely regarded as fundamentally flawed? Start here for a good review: http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pdfs/P2566.pdf http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pdfs/P2566.pdf ...and of course, the Stanford study is just one. Many other studies, which I and many others assert are of a superior design, have come to the opposite conclusion. This one is particularly compelling (sorry for the wordpress.com link, it's the only full text I can find online): https://donamarianadoces.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/nutritional-quality-organics2.pdf https://donamarianadoces.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/nutriti... Even if organic food weren't healthier - and for some foods, it certainly is - there are still other serious matters to consider, such as the sustainability of the farmland and the levels of exposure to farm workers. I agree about one flaw of "organic": that it is never a good idea to trust a government agency - especially the FDA - with food or drug safety advice without verifying it. Thus, the best way to ensure that your food meets your standard is to visit a local farm and ask about what fertilizers and pesticides are used. But that doesn't invalidate the entire 'organic' designation, which is in fact meaningful and significant.

david-given 11y ago
I'd interpret the parent's statement that the term organic does not necessarily mean anything of value. It does have a technical definition, which when applied strictly can have value, but it's also horribly abused as a feel-good term with no semantic content. (Just as 'holistic' is, looking elsewhere on the thread.) (One of my pet hates is 'organic salt'.)
- jMyles 11y ago
  If you know of someone who is advertising products as organic when they aren't, I suggest reporting them to the local farmer's group, chamber of commerce, industry association, or (groan) the FDA. "Organic salt," although counter-intuitive, has a meaning: that the product does not have additives or anti-caking agents. (In some countries, the harvesting processing must also comport to environmental standards). Although the FDA does not certify salt as "organic," I believe that it still handles reports of salt that does contain additives or anti-caking agents being advertised as "organic." I'm not sure that it's reasonable to care whether salt is "organic," but it's not a capricious term. It's well-defined and easy to understand. Some other products, such as butter, are chemically quite distinct from their counterparts which are produced by orthodox techniques and quite worth caring about. It is easy to have these products lab tested to determine whether or not they are organic. If you eat butter, then switching to organic butter will remove a substantial mass of chemical pesticides, including organophosphate, prenatal exposure to which is known to cause some serious problems.

RIMR 11y ago

>Why would lights be stressful? There's a great deal of evidence that flashing unnatural light sources have negative effects on animals. Do you have any evidence that this isn't stressful to animals?