5 ms·

That's fucked up (and here goes my karma). As a human being you don't need a real live creature to play on your touch-enabled device du jour to get the same `e

That's fucked up (and here goes my karma). As a human being you don't need a real live creature to play on your touch-enabled device du jour to get the same `entertainment'. What's in for the pigs ? Forget that, it'd be even more fucked up if the pig was rewarded for playing with colors on the wall (because don't fool yourself, those flashes of light are going to be stressful in the long term). You want to get back to basics and connect with a pig ? Even - wow! - feed them with apples, breads or old lettuce ? Spend some days on a farm http://wwoofinternational.org/ http://wwoofinternational.org/ WWOOF organisations connect people who want to live and learn on organic farms and smallholdings with people who are looking for volunteer help. WWOOF hosts offer food, accommodation and opportunities to learn about organic lifestyles. Volunteers give hands on help in return. WWOOF is a network of national organizations. To become involved in the WWOOF community explore the drop down menu or list below and connect with the local WWOOF organization. For hosts in countries with no WWOOF organization yet check out WWOOF in Other Countries Make a difference! Get involved! Join WWOOF! Think global – act local! edit: No, I am not a PETA poster boy, I like meat. edit2: could someone kickstart or crowfund something to give those pigs a fucking straw litter ? How about paying for the game and buy something for the whole group of pigs.

Latty 11y ago
Why would lights be stressful? As to 'WWOOF', any organization that continues to perpetuate the myth that 'organic' means anything of value to anyone is one I'm never going to like. 'Natural' is a dumb buzzword with no meaning that is useful when deciding what food is good. Yeah, let's cover our food with natural fertilizers that are less effective, sometimes dangerous, and more likely to run off into rivers and cause ecological damage, just so someone can think they are gaining something while spending more. Great.
- johnchristopher 11y ago
  There is also among `Woofers' a lot of people into <edit> natural/magical </edit> healing and clearly living in la-la-land. But guess what, that won't come into play when you move boxes of apples from the barn to the pig stable(? not sure of the word here). Be it organic or industrial or whatyacallit it's not a bad idea to sometimes get down on the ground to pick up vegetables for supper for a short 2-3 days farm trip. > Yeah, let's cover our food with natural fertilizers that are less effective, sometimes dangerous, and more likely to run off into rivers and cause ecological damage, Huhu, you totally know what you are talking about. For the record I am not into organic (but I am into the local food thingie, to each its own).
  - Latty 11y ago
    I'm not saying natural things are bad, I'm saying 'natural' (and, by extension, 'organic') means nothing about if the product is safe, tasty, ecologically friendly, effective, local, etc... (all the things people traditionally tout organic food as) It's a nonsense bit of advertising, and anyone using it to imply their products are good either believes that or is trying to trick me - either way, I don't want to buy/be involved with that thing. > Huhu, you totally know what you are talking about. And why do you think I don't? If you think something I'm saying is wrong, please explain it to me so I can learn.
    - jMyles 11y ago
      > I'm saying 'natural' (and, by extension, 'organic') Why are you conflating "natural," which in this context is as meaningless as you say, with "organic," which is not? While I don't have confidence in the FDA to check or enforce the definition, it is defined for agricultural purposes in the USA. If you know someone that claims that their products are organic when in fact they aren't, you can report them. Here's some info: http://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/About%20the%20National%20Organic%20Program.pdf http://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/About%20th...
  - jMyles 11y ago
    > holistic healing What's wrong with holistic healing? Perhaps you are thinking of homeopathy?
    - johnchristopher 11y ago
      My bad, I mixed up some wording when translating my thoughts on the fly, I wanted to refer to the whole chakra/mysticism/body-heals-itself and `holistic' came out (there must be some kind of cognitivo-linguistic explanation that would explain it but that'd be a poor excuse for what is essentially a lack of attention on my part).
      - magic_beans 11y ago
- jMyles 11y ago
  > the myth that 'organic' means anything of value It is not a myth. While some organic food is very similar to food grown with orthodox farming techniques, most of it is not, and some is very, very different. I surmise that your contention is based on the Stanford study? Have you ever actually read the study yourself? Do you realize that its methodology is widely regarded as fundamentally flawed? Start here for a good review: http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pdfs/P2566.pdf http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pdfs/P2566.pdf ...and of course, the Stanford study is just one. Many other studies, which I and many others assert are of a superior design, have come to the opposite conclusion. This one is particularly compelling (sorry for the wordpress.com link, it's the only full text I can find online): https://donamarianadoces.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/nutritional-quality-organics2.pdf https://donamarianadoces.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/nutriti... Even if organic food weren't healthier - and for some foods, it certainly is - there are still other serious matters to consider, such as the sustainability of the farmland and the levels of exposure to farm workers. I agree about one flaw of "organic": that it is never a good idea to trust a government agency - especially the FDA - with food or drug safety advice without verifying it. Thus, the best way to ensure that your food meets your standard is to visit a local farm and ask about what fertilizers and pesticides are used. But that doesn't invalidate the entire 'organic' designation, which is in fact meaningful and significant.
  - david-given 11y ago
    I'd interpret the parent's statement that the term organic does not necessarily mean anything of value. It does have a technical definition, which when applied strictly can have value, but it's also horribly abused as a feel-good term with no semantic content. (Just as 'holistic' is, looking elsewhere on the thread.) (One of my pet hates is 'organic salt'.)
    - jMyles 11y ago
      If you know of someone who is advertising products as organic when they aren't, I suggest reporting them to the local farmer's group, chamber of commerce, industry association, or (groan) the FDA. "Organic salt," although counter-intuitive, has a meaning: that the product does not have additives or anti-caking agents. (In some countries, the harvesting processing must also comport to environmental standards). Although the FDA does not certify salt as "organic," I believe that it still handles reports of salt that does contain additives or anti-caking agents being advertised as "organic." I'm not sure that it's reasonable to care whether salt is "organic," but it's not a capricious term. It's well-defined and easy to understand. Some other products, such as butter, are chemically quite distinct from their counterparts which are produced by orthodox techniques and quite worth caring about. It is easy to have these products lab tested to determine whether or not they are organic. If you eat butter, then switching to organic butter will remove a substantial mass of chemical pesticides, including organophosphate, prenatal exposure to which is known to cause some serious problems.
- RIMR 11y ago
  >Why would lights be stressful? There's a great deal of evidence that flashing unnatural light sources have negative effects on animals. Do you have any evidence that this isn't stressful to animals?
jMyles 11y ago
WWOOF is an amazing organization. A wonderful model. I know more than a handful of people who found direction in their lives through WWOOF. I also know two farms that got awesome boosts from being injected with WWOOFers. I had an idea to create a similar model for open source. I want to call it MEOW (Making Enterprise on the Open Web).
claysmithr 11y ago
> What's in for the pigs ? Entertainment.

Latty 11y ago

Why would lights be stressful? As to 'WWOOF', any organization that continues to perpetuate the myth that 'organic' means anything of value to anyone is one I'm never going to like. 'Natural' is a dumb buzzword with no meaning that is useful when deciding what food is good. Yeah, let's cover our food with natural fertilizers that are less effective, sometimes dangerous, and more likely to run off into rivers and cause ecological damage, just so someone can think they are gaining something while spending more. Great.

johnchristopher 11y ago
There is also among `Woofers' a lot of people into <edit> natural/magical </edit> healing and clearly living in la-la-land. But guess what, that won't come into play when you move boxes of apples from the barn to the pig stable(? not sure of the word here). Be it organic or industrial or whatyacallit it's not a bad idea to sometimes get down on the ground to pick up vegetables for supper for a short 2-3 days farm trip. > Yeah, let's cover our food with natural fertilizers that are less effective, sometimes dangerous, and more likely to run off into rivers and cause ecological damage, Huhu, you totally know what you are talking about. For the record I am not into organic (but I am into the local food thingie, to each its own).
- Latty 11y ago
  I'm not saying natural things are bad, I'm saying 'natural' (and, by extension, 'organic') means nothing about if the product is safe, tasty, ecologically friendly, effective, local, etc... (all the things people traditionally tout organic food as) It's a nonsense bit of advertising, and anyone using it to imply their products are good either believes that or is trying to trick me - either way, I don't want to buy/be involved with that thing. > Huhu, you totally know what you are talking about. And why do you think I don't? If you think something I'm saying is wrong, please explain it to me so I can learn.
  - jMyles 11y ago
    > I'm saying 'natural' (and, by extension, 'organic') Why are you conflating "natural," which in this context is as meaningless as you say, with "organic," which is not? While I don't have confidence in the FDA to check or enforce the definition, it is defined for agricultural purposes in the USA. If you know someone that claims that their products are organic when in fact they aren't, you can report them. Here's some info: http://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/About%20the%20National%20Organic%20Program.pdf http://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/About%20th...
- jMyles 11y ago
  > holistic healing What's wrong with holistic healing? Perhaps you are thinking of homeopathy?
  - johnchristopher 11y ago
    My bad, I mixed up some wording when translating my thoughts on the fly, I wanted to refer to the whole chakra/mysticism/body-heals-itself and `holistic' came out (there must be some kind of cognitivo-linguistic explanation that would explain it but that'd be a poor excuse for what is essentially a lack of attention on my part).
    - magic_beans 11y ago
jMyles 11y ago
> the myth that 'organic' means anything of value It is not a myth. While some organic food is very similar to food grown with orthodox farming techniques, most of it is not, and some is very, very different. I surmise that your contention is based on the Stanford study? Have you ever actually read the study yourself? Do you realize that its methodology is widely regarded as fundamentally flawed? Start here for a good review: http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pdfs/P2566.pdf http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pdfs/P2566.pdf ...and of course, the Stanford study is just one. Many other studies, which I and many others assert are of a superior design, have come to the opposite conclusion. This one is particularly compelling (sorry for the wordpress.com link, it's the only full text I can find online): https://donamarianadoces.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/nutritional-quality-organics2.pdf https://donamarianadoces.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/nutriti... Even if organic food weren't healthier - and for some foods, it certainly is - there are still other serious matters to consider, such as the sustainability of the farmland and the levels of exposure to farm workers. I agree about one flaw of "organic": that it is never a good idea to trust a government agency - especially the FDA - with food or drug safety advice without verifying it. Thus, the best way to ensure that your food meets your standard is to visit a local farm and ask about what fertilizers and pesticides are used. But that doesn't invalidate the entire 'organic' designation, which is in fact meaningful and significant.
- david-given 11y ago
  I'd interpret the parent's statement that the term organic does not necessarily mean anything of value. It does have a technical definition, which when applied strictly can have value, but it's also horribly abused as a feel-good term with no semantic content. (Just as 'holistic' is, looking elsewhere on the thread.) (One of my pet hates is 'organic salt'.)
  - jMyles 11y ago
    If you know of someone who is advertising products as organic when they aren't, I suggest reporting them to the local farmer's group, chamber of commerce, industry association, or (groan) the FDA. "Organic salt," although counter-intuitive, has a meaning: that the product does not have additives or anti-caking agents. (In some countries, the harvesting processing must also comport to environmental standards). Although the FDA does not certify salt as "organic," I believe that it still handles reports of salt that does contain additives or anti-caking agents being advertised as "organic." I'm not sure that it's reasonable to care whether salt is "organic," but it's not a capricious term. It's well-defined and easy to understand. Some other products, such as butter, are chemically quite distinct from their counterparts which are produced by orthodox techniques and quite worth caring about. It is easy to have these products lab tested to determine whether or not they are organic. If you eat butter, then switching to organic butter will remove a substantial mass of chemical pesticides, including organophosphate, prenatal exposure to which is known to cause some serious problems.
RIMR 11y ago
>Why would lights be stressful? There's a great deal of evidence that flashing unnatural light sources have negative effects on animals. Do you have any evidence that this isn't stressful to animals?

jMyles 11y ago

WWOOF is an amazing organization. A wonderful model. I know more than a handful of people who found direction in their lives through WWOOF. I also know two farms that got awesome boosts from being injected with WWOOFers. I had an idea to create a similar model for open source. I want to call it MEOW (Making Enterprise on the Open Web).

claysmithr 11y ago

> What's in for the pigs ? Entertainment.