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In my opinion elite universities are more for traditional career paths. They are nothing for entrepeneurs. You waste too much time with exams. There should be

In my opinion elite universities are more for traditional career paths. They are nothing for entrepeneurs. You waste too much time with exams. There should be an opportunity to get credits for entrepeneurial work at university. Edit: I am engineering alumnus of a so called elite university in germany and struggled much with exams because I just wanted to do more practical work which one can sell.

cowsandmilk 11y ago
Many universities do have opportunity to get credits for entrepreneurial work. I would venture to say most do, if you talk to the department chair. Often they'll be called "independent study", but it is there. The bigger question is whether you should be paying 3-4 figures per credit just to be recognized by the university for doing that independent study.
- alistairSH 11y ago
  This was true at UVA. Independent study was allowed, but not advertised, at least when I was there (late-90s). Paying per credit wasn't a problem, as tuition was fixed for full-time students.
GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
It's called an 'honorary degree.'
something123 11y ago
My sample size is one, but I have a high school friend who went to a top school for college and is now at another one for graduate work From my more humble vantage point it's been incredibly damaging. He has no social life outside of his career ( basically the people living the same lifestyle) and has been molded to be single mindedly focused on his studies. He's honestly in most ways has because a more dull individual. (This is kinda funny b/c they were sorta conceived to emulate Oxford and Cambridge - which as I understand are all about he well-rounded "liberal arts eduction") However that being said, it's hard to argue with the fact that all his colleagues and all the people he meets are incredibly intelligent/hard-working and he in effect has access to the best minds in the world. The fact he is so "networked" mean ofcourse he will always have a very well paying job, and most likely will eventually be in a position of power. EDIT: A corollary would be that if young Jack Ma went to Harvard, he wouldn't have become current Jack Ma, and would probably be another wealthy lawyer or something
- nick_dm 11y ago
  > (This is kinda funny b/c they were sorta conceived to emulate Oxford and Cambridge - which as I understand are all about he well-rounded "liberal arts eduction") Undergrad programs at Oxford and Cambridge are actually very specialized compared to American degrees. Students typically don't take any classes from outside their primary course. While some courses are broader than a typical major at an American university (e.g "Natural Sciences" at Cambridge or "Philosophy, Politics and Economics" at Oxford) only a small number mix the sciences and humanities, and even then only in certain approved combinations (e.g. at Oxford you can do {Mathematics,CS,Physics} with Philosophy, but not {Chemistry,Biology} with Philosophy). http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing http://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses?ucam-ref=global-header http://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses?ucam-ref=gl...
seiji 11y ago
Except you can't get a job doing "entrepenuering." You create companies by doing a lot of hard work yourself which requires — gasp! — traditional skills like working competently, rapidly and playing nicely in groups of other people. Only after you've started one or two companies yourself do you get elevated to the lofty heights of pure thought leadership where you don't have to work and people still want to employ you to "lead" them.
- icebraining 11y ago
  Except you can't get a job doing "entrepenuering." What about when you get acquihired?
  - seiji 11y ago
    There's a good chance you had to do real, material work before that happens though (unless you have friends in high places that get you on-boarded to Google before you even release a product). and, 'acquihire' without actually building a successful product is the ultimate entreper-poser move, isn't it? You didn't build something users want, you just showed you can be a worthwhile employee for a larger corporate entity. Private success isn't always progress.
larrys 11y ago
"They are nothing for entrepeneurs. (sic)" Well the exception to that is that having an elite university degree can definitely help getting taken more seriously when fund raising, hiring employees, and gaining customers (as I have found out from personal experience).
arihant 11y ago
> They are nothing for entrepeneurs. This is absolutely false. Great colleges are extremely hard, and in top programs kids are always fighting for life to not get kicked out. To me, CMU taught invaluable lessons in hard work, getting kicked in the teeth over and over, surviving mostly on coffee and alcohol, and persisting till success comes along. All these lessons help while starting a startup. A great college program will make graduate's problems feel small in comparison to what they put him through. Besides, starting a company is not the only entrepreneurial work one can do. Is Sundar Pichai less or more entrepreneurial than Zuckerberg? There are far more ways to inhibit courage than starting a company.
- aianus 11y ago
  > Great colleges are extremely hard, and in top programs kids are always fighting for life to not get kicked out. This is a lie when it comes to non-technical degrees at elite colleges like Harvard. Most people get A's. It's a joke. Edit: source: http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/12/3/grade-inflation-mode-a/ http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/12/3/grade-inflation-...
  - arihant 11y ago
    There are classes where a lot of people get A's. But I have a first hand experience to tell you that it's not easy. Just because majority got an A in a very small number of classes, does not disregard equal number of classes where majority fights for a C. It also does not say that people getting A's did not work their asses off. Grade inflation does happen in some courses. But it's not easy and is far from a joke. In the article you mentioned, the average is A-. Which means half of the smartest people recruited off from high school struggled to make it to 90 average, even after worrisome inflation. At worst, that's a 5-7% grade inflation.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - kaitai 11y ago
      People are fighting for As, and maybe working their butts off, but they could be doing a lot less, getting their straight Cs, and not get kicked out. It is easy to be mediocre and stay in Harvard if you already got in. (What gets people kicked out is a major depressive episode that results in DNFing all their classes for a while, not handing in mediocre homework consistently.)

cowsandmilk 11y ago

Many universities do have opportunity to get credits for entrepreneurial work. I would venture to say most do, if you talk to the department chair. Often they'll be called "independent study", but it is there. The bigger question is whether you should be paying 3-4 figures per credit just to be recognized by the university for doing that independent study.

alistairSH 11y ago
This was true at UVA. Independent study was allowed, but not advertised, at least when I was there (late-90s). Paying per credit wasn't a problem, as tuition was fixed for full-time students.

GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago

It's called an 'honorary degree.'

something123 11y ago

My sample size is one, but I have a high school friend who went to a top school for college and is now at another one for graduate work From my more humble vantage point it's been incredibly damaging. He has no social life outside of his career ( basically the people living the same lifestyle) and has been molded to be single mindedly focused on his studies. He's honestly in most ways has because a more dull individual. (This is kinda funny b/c they were sorta conceived to emulate Oxford and Cambridge - which as I understand are all about he well-rounded "liberal arts eduction") However that being said, it's hard to argue with the fact that all his colleagues and all the people he meets are incredibly intelligent/hard-working and he in effect has access to the best minds in the world. The fact he is so "networked" mean ofcourse he will always have a very well paying job, and most likely will eventually be in a position of power. EDIT: A corollary would be that if young Jack Ma went to Harvard, he wouldn't have become current Jack Ma, and would probably be another wealthy lawyer or something

nick_dm 11y ago
> (This is kinda funny b/c they were sorta conceived to emulate Oxford and Cambridge - which as I understand are all about he well-rounded "liberal arts eduction") Undergrad programs at Oxford and Cambridge are actually very specialized compared to American degrees. Students typically don't take any classes from outside their primary course. While some courses are broader than a typical major at an American university (e.g "Natural Sciences" at Cambridge or "Philosophy, Politics and Economics" at Oxford) only a small number mix the sciences and humanities, and even then only in certain approved combinations (e.g. at Oxford you can do {Mathematics,CS,Physics} with Philosophy, but not {Chemistry,Biology} with Philosophy). http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing http://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses?ucam-ref=global-header http://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses?ucam-ref=gl...

seiji 11y ago

Except you can't get a job doing "entrepenuering." You create companies by doing a lot of hard work yourself which requires — gasp! — traditional skills like working competently, rapidly and playing nicely in groups of other people. Only after you've started one or two companies yourself do you get elevated to the lofty heights of pure thought leadership where you don't have to work and people still want to employ you to "lead" them.

icebraining 11y ago
Except you can't get a job doing "entrepenuering." What about when you get acquihired?
- seiji 11y ago
  There's a good chance you had to do real, material work before that happens though (unless you have friends in high places that get you on-boarded to Google before you even release a product). and, 'acquihire' without actually building a successful product is the ultimate entreper-poser move, isn't it? You didn't build something users want, you just showed you can be a worthwhile employee for a larger corporate entity. Private success isn't always progress.

larrys 11y ago

"They are nothing for entrepeneurs. (sic)" Well the exception to that is that having an elite university degree can definitely help getting taken more seriously when fund raising, hiring employees, and gaining customers (as I have found out from personal experience).

arihant 11y ago

> They are nothing for entrepeneurs. This is absolutely false. Great colleges are extremely hard, and in top programs kids are always fighting for life to not get kicked out. To me, CMU taught invaluable lessons in hard work, getting kicked in the teeth over and over, surviving mostly on coffee and alcohol, and persisting till success comes along. All these lessons help while starting a startup. A great college program will make graduate's problems feel small in comparison to what they put him through. Besides, starting a company is not the only entrepreneurial work one can do. Is Sundar Pichai less or more entrepreneurial than Zuckerberg? There are far more ways to inhibit courage than starting a company.

aianus 11y ago
> Great colleges are extremely hard, and in top programs kids are always fighting for life to not get kicked out. This is a lie when it comes to non-technical degrees at elite colleges like Harvard. Most people get A's. It's a joke. Edit: source: http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/12/3/grade-inflation-mode-a/ http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/12/3/grade-inflation-...
- arihant 11y ago
  There are classes where a lot of people get A's. But I have a first hand experience to tell you that it's not easy. Just because majority got an A in a very small number of classes, does not disregard equal number of classes where majority fights for a C. It also does not say that people getting A's did not work their asses off. Grade inflation does happen in some courses. But it's not easy and is far from a joke. In the article you mentioned, the average is A-. Which means half of the smartest people recruited off from high school struggled to make it to 90 average, even after worrisome inflation. At worst, that's a 5-7% grade inflation.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - kaitai 11y ago
    People are fighting for As, and maybe working their butts off, but they could be doing a lot less, getting their straight Cs, and not get kicked out. It is easy to be mediocre and stay in Harvard if you already got in. (What gets people kicked out is a major depressive episode that results in DNFing all their classes for a while, not handing in mediocre homework consistently.)