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Jack Ma: 'Harvard rejected me 10 times' [video]

81 points by jimsojim 11y ago

larrys 11y ago
It's kind of funny how people who have made it as big as Jack Ma are still obsessed enough with Harvard to mention almost as a badge of honor that they were rejected from Harvard. As if to say "see Harvard was obviously wrong here". Harvard or any top school in no way can accept anywhere near all of the applicants that are qualified to attend those schools. As such there will be people that will be rejected and accepted almost arbitrarily at the whims of the admissions staff and or quotas of one type or another.
- o_____________o 11y ago
  It's like calling an old girlfriend just to passive-aggressively tell her you bought a car dealership
  - josefresco 11y ago
    No it's like calling up the dealership you applied to (1o times!) in college, to tell them you now own a dealership.
    - ChuckMcM 11y ago
      ... that dealership.
- Exuma 11y ago
  10 times is a lot worse than being wrong once, however.
  - ant6n 11y ago
    The admissions may be random, but apaprently not independent
  - Kurtz79 11y ago
    On the other hand: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Without being knowledgeable about Harvard admission process, I would expect that the same evaluation done for one application would hold, at least in part, for the following ones submitted by the same person ?
- myth_buster 11y ago
  College admissions process over an year is an introspective and gut-wrenching experience and irrespective of the outcome, it does leave a lasting experience. Now considering if he did indeed apply 10 times, that says a lot about how much it would have affected him.
- zeronone 11y ago
  I guess he wants to stress that having a degree from Harvard is not as important as one might think. In his case, I guess it was the hardships that took him to the heights; maybe the Harvard degree would not have been any good for him.
- noobermin 11y ago
  "Still obsessed" If anything, his tone implied that learning to deal with rejection and to keep trying is one of the things that made him successful.
- sidekick 11y ago
  Like several others have mentioned how the video contains so much more than then just headline, I get the sense that you did not watch the video before commenting. His passing mention of Harvard could hardly imply he is "still obsessed" with Harvard.
doczoidberg 11y ago
In my opinion elite universities are more for traditional career paths. They are nothing for entrepeneurs. You waste too much time with exams. There should be an opportunity to get credits for entrepeneurial work at university. Edit: I am engineering alumnus of a so called elite university in germany and struggled much with exams because I just wanted to do more practical work which one can sell.
- cowsandmilk 11y ago
  Many universities do have opportunity to get credits for entrepreneurial work. I would venture to say most do, if you talk to the department chair. Often they'll be called "independent study", but it is there. The bigger question is whether you should be paying 3-4 figures per credit just to be recognized by the university for doing that independent study.
  - alistairSH 11y ago
    This was true at UVA. Independent study was allowed, but not advertised, at least when I was there (late-90s). Paying per credit wasn't a problem, as tuition was fixed for full-time students.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
  It's called an 'honorary degree.'
- something123 11y ago
  My sample size is one, but I have a high school friend who went to a top school for college and is now at another one for graduate work From my more humble vantage point it's been incredibly damaging. He has no social life outside of his career ( basically the people living the same lifestyle) and has been molded to be single mindedly focused on his studies. He's honestly in most ways has because a more dull individual. (This is kinda funny b/c they were sorta conceived to emulate Oxford and Cambridge - which as I understand are all about he well-rounded "liberal arts eduction") However that being said, it's hard to argue with the fact that all his colleagues and all the people he meets are incredibly intelligent/hard-working and he in effect has access to the best minds in the world. The fact he is so "networked" mean ofcourse he will always have a very well paying job, and most likely will eventually be in a position of power. EDIT: A corollary would be that if young Jack Ma went to Harvard, he wouldn't have become current Jack Ma, and would probably be another wealthy lawyer or something
deterselect 11y ago
He claims that out of 25 people, he was the only one rejected for a job at KFC. That to me is more inspirational. On the other hand, could he be lying about some of these hardships to make him seem more relatable?
- antidaily 11y ago
  Now THAT should have been the headline.
- roymurdock 11y ago
  "I applied for jobs 30 times - got rejected. I went for the police, they said 'No, you're not good.' I went to even the KFC, when KFC came to China, to my state - 24 people went for the job...23 people were accepted, I was the only guy. And when I went for the police, 5 people - 4 of them accepted, I was the only guy who did not receive it." Much more motivational than being turned down by Harvard...I seriously doubt he's lying, given that he failed middle school/high school/college exams multiple times.
  - Loque 11y ago
    It could be that he wouldn't have been good at any of those things too, and this was apparent to the people interviewing him. I had real troubles with school, and jobs where I had no interest in, luckily I tripped into an industry I enjoy working in!
- larrys 11y ago
  I think that (rejected from KFC) is a variation of the "humble brag". A way of attempting to relate to people that are not billionaires as if to say "hey keep plugging away you could be me one day!". The fact is we don't know if the story is true first or why the KFC manager rejected him. Perhaps the KFC manager spotted that a guy like Jack was not simple enough or was to motivated or intense to stay for more than a week at that job. Not unusual for any company anywhere to reject people they feel are overqualified for a particular job for any number of reasons. Just because you tell Apple or Google you would be happy to start sweeping floors with your masters degree in computer science doesn't mean they are going to offer you a job doing that even if you would do a damn good job cleaning those floors.
gchokov 11y ago
Classical education is DEAD. I see this worldwide and there're countless examples about it. 1. Smart people do not get accepted for various reasons 2. There's no personalization of classes - people are not machines and shouldn't be treated to study the same thing in the same ways. No creativity inspired. 3. Big gap between businesses and universities. and on and on..
- oblio 11y ago
  > Classical education is DEAD for outstanding individuals. Fixed that for you. The vast majority of people are not outstanding.
- 3pt14159 11y ago
  The technical founders of Google, Facebook, even Apple all went to world class schools.
  - staticint 11y ago
    That seems to play into the parent's point though: * Not-so-exceptional people are not granted admission * Exceptional people are demonstrably exceptional even before admission There is no path for unexceptional people to find exceptional success by simply going to the right school, like certain interest groups want you to believe. The flaw is thinking that academia and business are supposed to be intertwined at all, of course. They are completely separate institutions for a reason.
  - mafribe 11y ago
    And many/most of the people they hire too.
ilamont 11y ago
Colleges such as Harvard that base admissions decisions on grades, standardized test scores, traditional social/leadership signals (club x, sports team y), alumni connections, geographic/ethnic background, and writing/storytelling skills (i.e., the “personal essay”) are going to miss a lot of brilliant, innovative people and future leaders. The 17-year-old Steve Jobs (free spirit), Barack Obama (slacker), and Jack Ma (failed entrance exam) would never be admitted to a place like Harvard, at least as undergraduates.
- stephencanon 11y ago
  Yup. The thing is, they get so many applicants that they have no reason to care if they miss some good ones. The ones they end up taking are just as good. Any of the elite schools could throw out their entire admitted class, admit their next 2k choices, and no one would be able to tell the difference. The schools have a huge incentive to admit students who will succeed. They have no incentive to admit all such students. This results in the admissions process that we have today.
  - metaphorm 11y ago
    > The ones they end up taking are just as good I disagree with this sentiment. humans are individuals and unique. none is "just as good" as another. each is different. the college admissions process treats human beings as fungible commodities. like ears of corn at the grain silo. > The schools have a huge incentive to admit students who will succeed. They have no incentive to admit all such students. what does succeed mean? some of the most well-regarded members of our society were poor students, or dropped out of college when they were young. some of our most damaging criminals were excellent students and graduated from Ivy League schools with honors.
    - stephencanon 11y ago
      "Just as good" in the sense of "equally viable on the scale used by admissions", not in the capital-G sense of Good or in a hypothetical "equally valuable as human beings" sense. Yes, they are different, but those differences are often not relevant to the task set before the admissions committee.
ftrflyr 11y ago
I was going to post this when I saw it. Beat me to it. Thanks for sharing! And agree, the KFC story is powerful.
jcfrei 11y ago
Great entrepreneurs don't necessarily make great academics and vice versa.
- pavornyoh 11y ago
  @jcfrei, I agree. One has to take into consideration the circumstances one is raised in, culture etc. That plays a huge role also. When you read about Jack Ma, although he failed to get a job at KFC, that did not deter him but rather egged him on. He is/was just a hustler with a keen eye to identify opportunities in the worse situations.
ChuckMcM 11y ago
It is an interesting claim. I think Harvard would still reject him, he doesn't seem to fit in with what a "Harvard Man" is. The mistake is thinking that Harvard wants all the successful people in the world to go there, as far as I can tell they don't. Every private University recruits from their "tribe" whether it is 'quirky' at Reed or 'cosmopolitan' at Harvard, while not discriminating on race, religion, Etc they do pick people who create a community "like them". The weird conflict comes in when someone like Jack, who by many accounts would have not "fit in" with the community at Harvard (he would have been fine at MIT I suspect) but Jack gets focused on "Harvard is the 'best' so I really want to go there." which isn't focused on the question of whether it is the best for him. I really encourage folks to find a college that fits them rather than picking a college by some score it has. If you are lucky the college will reject you if you don't fit and that will save you from a bad experience there, if you are unlucky you'll get in and hate the experience.
- contergan 11y ago
  >while not discriminating on race Affirmative action IS discrimination on race. AFAIK Harvard has been sued because of that not too long ago - I don't know the outcome though.
  - Retric 11y ago
    Not necessarily, if hypothetically silver people make up 20% of the population, but due to cultural bias in testing they make up 10% of the student body you could correct for that bias without discriminating. For an actual example, rich people tend to look better on Harvard applications, but preform worse at Harvard than poor people. Adjusting for a bias in the application process would not be discrimination based on income.
  - swframe 11y ago
    If you strongly feel that affirmative action is wrong then the best way to end it is to end racial segregation in housing and K-12 education. When colleges see that all kids are getting the same opportunities they will end their programs to correct for that societal flaw. It seems very shortsighted to think that displacing affirmative action students is the best way to improve our society or that not getting into Harvard will take something from you that you deserve or need.
mrdrozdov 11y ago
There is so much more to this video than Jack Ma's rejection from Harvard. His company, Alibaba, is second only to Walmart in e-commerce business. He talks about Alibaba's success internationally (places like Russia and Norway). He also talks about the company's relationship with government regarding technology projects and privacy.
- vlunkr 11y ago
  Thank you. That's really a small part of the video. I get the sense that most of these comments are coming from people who didn't watch it.
  - sidekick 11y ago
    Agreed. Having watched the video after reading the comments, I am actually rather disappointed at some of the negative things written here. The interview contains a lot of other more inspiring stories than just his Harvard rejections. For example, he talks about how he comes from a pretty bad elementary school, how he learned about the internet, how Alibaba got its name, how none of his capital came from the government, that Alibaba's workforce is actually ~47% women, how he rather would be respected than be rich, and his philosophy on businesses helping people. Near the end, he says: "I believe when you have 1 million dollars, that’s your money. When you have 20 million dollars, you start to have problems, worry about inflation, worry about which stock to buy, this and that - When you have 1 billion dollars, that’s not your money. That’s the trust society gives you. They believe you can manage the money - use the money better than the government, than the others. So I think today, I have the resources to do more things. With the money we have, with the influence we have, we should spend more time on the young people."
    - vlunkr 11y ago
      He also said that his goal is always to keep his employees happy, so they in turn keep the customers happy. Lots of companies out there have that backwards.
pdabbadabba 11y ago
I'm surprised that people still find such claims interesting. Colleges like Harvard are so popular that many people like Ma are inevitably going to be excluded. It doesn't mean much. There are at least three things going on: 1) Harvard has to make its decision on the basis of limited information. 2) Even if Harvard had perfect information, there are probably more 'ideal' candidates in the world than Harvard could hope to admit. Most are still going to be excluded. 3) Just because Jack Ma has become successful doesn't mean he would have been a good fit for Harvard. Success in entrepreneurship is not the ultimate educational goal for all (or even most) people, and does not necessary reflect all the qualities that a school like Harvard wants in its students (except, cynically, the ability to make big donations later in life...). So where does this leave us? Don't beat yourself up if you don't get into Harvard. Most successful people didn't. But, at the same time, actually going to Harvard (and schools like it) remains an incredible opportunity for those who are admitted and have suitably aligned educational goals.
angdis 11y ago
Maybe that's the best thing that ever happened to him? If he had gone to Harvard, he could very well have ended up as a well-paid, well-connected cog in a huge corporation. Whatever, I find it useless to think about what 1-in-a-billion entrepreneurs do or don't do. Harvard is a fine university and anyone who gets admitted should count themselves lucky and privileged. Those that don't, well, there's plenty of other excellent options.
clips 11y ago
I think the interview is worth watching entirely as it's so much more than a rejection from an elite institution such as Harvard. Rejection from KFC, from even middle school -- these stories are just as powerful if not much more so.
yuncun 11y ago
I grew up in a Chinese household, and I swear, Chinese people are way too obsessed with university branding. It's not even about quality of education, it's a cultural status phenomenon. If you take 10 mothers, the dick size of each one is directly proportional to the US News (yes, specifically US News) ranking of the university of her child. And if Timmy, some random kid in school, had a 2380 SAT, then as a fellow Chinese kid, you'd hear about it somehow. Thankfully my parents weren't this crazy, but I've seen Chinese families spend thousands on SAT preps, or parents discouraging their kids from playing sports to chase a 4.4 GPA. I hear it's even worse in areas like Cupertino. I mean, I respect the pusuit of education, but this obsession with college is a poisonous byproduct. Those kids aren't even better off after college anyways. It's all pride. Look at Jack Ma. 22.5 Billion dollars, and Harvard is still like Gatsby's Daisy to him.
- xienze 11y ago
  Valid point, but there's something to be said for the Asian American community's obsession with education. Is it any surprise that they are the most successful minority group in America?
  - maneesh 11y ago
    Not even close to the success of Indian Americans
    - kaitai 11y ago
      Who don't have as many PhDs per capita as Nigerian Americans (tops in the US!).
  - Apocryphon 11y ago
    Self-selection bias. The Asian American community is immensely diverse and consists of many different immigrant (and native!) waves. Wealthy, well-educated Taiwanese semiconductor engineers from the '70s and '80s are not the same as LA Korean grocers are not the same as Vietnamese boat people are not the same as Hmong refugees are not the same as recent mainland Chinese nouveau riche are not the same as Nisei and Sansei who have been in the U.S. for decades are not the same as Pacific Islanders or South Asians or Middle Easterners.
xacaxulu 11y ago
thelastpsychiatrist has a great exposé on the Harvard cheating scandal that speaks to the 'everyone passes xyz classes' claims. http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/09/the_harvard_cheating_scandal_i.html http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/09/the_harvard_cheating_...
markbao 11y ago
I'm surprised they let him apply ten times. I was rejected from Stanford three times and didn't allow me to apply a fourth time.
- Retra 11y ago
  As long as you're paying application fees, why should they stop you from trying?
roymurdock 11y ago
On being asked what he worries about: I worry today that a lot of young people lose hope, lose vision, and start to complain. We also had the same problem - it's not a good feeling being rejected by so many people. We were also depressed. But at least later, we find that the world has a lot of opportunity, how you see the world, how you catch the opportunity.
curiousjorge 11y ago
how successful do I need to be in order to be accepted into Harvard MBA from a western province university with mediocre GPA? How much much under the table damn it. You have no idea how much social capital an ivy league degree gives you in Korea, no idea! (ex. generous bank loans, women, social status, tv shows, your own kpop girl group wow!)
Kenji 11y ago
Most inspirational part: "If everybody agreed with me, if everybody believed my/our idea is good, we'd have no chance!"
exelius 11y ago
The qualities that make someone a successful entrepreneur often make them a poor student / employee. The same disregard of authority that makes people say "Why can't I do that? Who is going to stop me?" tends to lead you to more interesting conclusions than solving 40 problems from a math textbook. But keep in mind that Harvard's goal isn't to recruit the best students; it's to create an environment where the well-connected can co-mingle with accomplished academics. This is why Harvard and other Ivy League schools admit "legacy" students: it's an explicit recognition that sometimes, who you know does matter. If you have a good mix of smart people, driven people, and politically savvy people from powerful families, they can help push each other to great heights. I'm not so sure if the model works as well anymore, but also keep in mind that Harvard is almost 400 years old. It worked well for a long time.
gkanai 11y ago
Alibaba is indeed a force in China (and less-so globally) but the stock price is doing pretty poorly (down below IPO price.) https://www.google.com/finance?q=baba&ei=fFT4VanDAdLisAHx9r74Bw https://www.google.com/finance?q=baba&ei=fFT4VanDAdLisAHx9r7... It's a bit weird to see him lauded at WEF when, say Twitter, which is also below IPO price, is in fire-fighting mode (without CEO, etc.)
srisaila 11y ago
Above all, what matters is your true grit. There're MIT's in India, too. A renowned aerospace scientist, former President of India Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam was an alumnus of Madras Institute of Technology (MIT). The current CEO of Microsoft Satya Nadella got his engineering degree from Manipal Institute of Technology (MIT). Think about the autodidacts listed at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_autodidacts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_autodidacts

81 points by jimsojim 11y ago

It's kind of funny how people who have made it as big as Jack Ma are still obsessed enough with Harvard to mention almost as a badge of honor that they were rejected from Harvard. As if to say "see Harvard was obviously wrong here". Harvard or any top school in no way can accept anywhere near all of the applicants that are qualified to attend those schools. As such there will be people that will be rejected and accepted almost arbitrarily at the whims of the admissions staff and or quotas of one type or another.

o_____________o 11y ago
It's like calling an old girlfriend just to passive-aggressively tell her you bought a car dealership
- josefresco 11y ago
  No it's like calling up the dealership you applied to (1o times!) in college, to tell them you now own a dealership.
  - ChuckMcM 11y ago
    ... that dealership.
Exuma 11y ago
10 times is a lot worse than being wrong once, however.
- ant6n 11y ago
  The admissions may be random, but apaprently not independent
- Kurtz79 11y ago
  On the other hand: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Without being knowledgeable about Harvard admission process, I would expect that the same evaluation done for one application would hold, at least in part, for the following ones submitted by the same person ?
myth_buster 11y ago
College admissions process over an year is an introspective and gut-wrenching experience and irrespective of the outcome, it does leave a lasting experience. Now considering if he did indeed apply 10 times, that says a lot about how much it would have affected him.
zeronone 11y ago
I guess he wants to stress that having a degree from Harvard is not as important as one might think. In his case, I guess it was the hardships that took him to the heights; maybe the Harvard degree would not have been any good for him.
noobermin 11y ago
"Still obsessed" If anything, his tone implied that learning to deal with rejection and to keep trying is one of the things that made him successful.
sidekick 11y ago
Like several others have mentioned how the video contains so much more than then just headline, I get the sense that you did not watch the video before commenting. His passing mention of Harvard could hardly imply he is "still obsessed" with Harvard.

doczoidberg 11y ago

In my opinion elite universities are more for traditional career paths. They are nothing for entrepeneurs. You waste too much time with exams. There should be an opportunity to get credits for entrepeneurial work at university. Edit: I am engineering alumnus of a so called elite university in germany and struggled much with exams because I just wanted to do more practical work which one can sell.

cowsandmilk 11y ago
Many universities do have opportunity to get credits for entrepreneurial work. I would venture to say most do, if you talk to the department chair. Often they'll be called "independent study", but it is there. The bigger question is whether you should be paying 3-4 figures per credit just to be recognized by the university for doing that independent study.
- alistairSH 11y ago
  This was true at UVA. Independent study was allowed, but not advertised, at least when I was there (late-90s). Paying per credit wasn't a problem, as tuition was fixed for full-time students.
GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
It's called an 'honorary degree.'
something123 11y ago
My sample size is one, but I have a high school friend who went to a top school for college and is now at another one for graduate work From my more humble vantage point it's been incredibly damaging. He has no social life outside of his career ( basically the people living the same lifestyle) and has been molded to be single mindedly focused on his studies. He's honestly in most ways has because a more dull individual. (This is kinda funny b/c they were sorta conceived to emulate Oxford and Cambridge - which as I understand are all about he well-rounded "liberal arts eduction") However that being said, it's hard to argue with the fact that all his colleagues and all the people he meets are incredibly intelligent/hard-working and he in effect has access to the best minds in the world. The fact he is so "networked" mean ofcourse he will always have a very well paying job, and most likely will eventually be in a position of power. EDIT: A corollary would be that if young Jack Ma went to Harvard, he wouldn't have become current Jack Ma, and would probably be another wealthy lawyer or something

deterselect 11y ago

He claims that out of 25 people, he was the only one rejected for a job at KFC. That to me is more inspirational. On the other hand, could he be lying about some of these hardships to make him seem more relatable?

antidaily 11y ago
Now THAT should have been the headline.
roymurdock 11y ago
"I applied for jobs 30 times - got rejected. I went for the police, they said 'No, you're not good.' I went to even the KFC, when KFC came to China, to my state - 24 people went for the job...23 people were accepted, I was the only guy. And when I went for the police, 5 people - 4 of them accepted, I was the only guy who did not receive it." Much more motivational than being turned down by Harvard...I seriously doubt he's lying, given that he failed middle school/high school/college exams multiple times.
- Loque 11y ago
  It could be that he wouldn't have been good at any of those things too, and this was apparent to the people interviewing him. I had real troubles with school, and jobs where I had no interest in, luckily I tripped into an industry I enjoy working in!
larrys 11y ago
I think that (rejected from KFC) is a variation of the "humble brag". A way of attempting to relate to people that are not billionaires as if to say "hey keep plugging away you could be me one day!". The fact is we don't know if the story is true first or why the KFC manager rejected him. Perhaps the KFC manager spotted that a guy like Jack was not simple enough or was to motivated or intense to stay for more than a week at that job. Not unusual for any company anywhere to reject people they feel are overqualified for a particular job for any number of reasons. Just because you tell Apple or Google you would be happy to start sweeping floors with your masters degree in computer science doesn't mean they are going to offer you a job doing that even if you would do a damn good job cleaning those floors.

gchokov 11y ago

Classical education is DEAD. I see this worldwide and there're countless examples about it. 1. Smart people do not get accepted for various reasons 2. There's no personalization of classes - people are not machines and shouldn't be treated to study the same thing in the same ways. No creativity inspired. 3. Big gap between businesses and universities. and on and on..

oblio 11y ago
> Classical education is DEAD for outstanding individuals. Fixed that for you. The vast majority of people are not outstanding.
3pt14159 11y ago
The technical founders of Google, Facebook, even Apple all went to world class schools.
- staticint 11y ago
  That seems to play into the parent's point though: * Not-so-exceptional people are not granted admission * Exceptional people are demonstrably exceptional even before admission There is no path for unexceptional people to find exceptional success by simply going to the right school, like certain interest groups want you to believe. The flaw is thinking that academia and business are supposed to be intertwined at all, of course. They are completely separate institutions for a reason.
- mafribe 11y ago
  And many/most of the people they hire too.

ilamont 11y ago

Colleges such as Harvard that base admissions decisions on grades, standardized test scores, traditional social/leadership signals (club x, sports team y), alumni connections, geographic/ethnic background, and writing/storytelling skills (i.e., the “personal essay”) are going to miss a lot of brilliant, innovative people and future leaders. The 17-year-old Steve Jobs (free spirit), Barack Obama (slacker), and Jack Ma (failed entrance exam) would never be admitted to a place like Harvard, at least as undergraduates.

stephencanon 11y ago
Yup. The thing is, they get so many applicants that they have no reason to care if they miss some good ones. The ones they end up taking are just as good. Any of the elite schools could throw out their entire admitted class, admit their next 2k choices, and no one would be able to tell the difference. The schools have a huge incentive to admit students who will succeed. They have no incentive to admit all such students. This results in the admissions process that we have today.
- metaphorm 11y ago
  > The ones they end up taking are just as good I disagree with this sentiment. humans are individuals and unique. none is "just as good" as another. each is different. the college admissions process treats human beings as fungible commodities. like ears of corn at the grain silo. > The schools have a huge incentive to admit students who will succeed. They have no incentive to admit all such students. what does succeed mean? some of the most well-regarded members of our society were poor students, or dropped out of college when they were young. some of our most damaging criminals were excellent students and graduated from Ivy League schools with honors.
  - stephencanon 11y ago
    "Just as good" in the sense of "equally viable on the scale used by admissions", not in the capital-G sense of Good or in a hypothetical "equally valuable as human beings" sense. Yes, they are different, but those differences are often not relevant to the task set before the admissions committee.

ftrflyr 11y ago

I was going to post this when I saw it. Beat me to it. Thanks for sharing! And agree, the KFC story is powerful.

jcfrei 11y ago

Great entrepreneurs don't necessarily make great academics and vice versa.

pavornyoh 11y ago
@jcfrei, I agree. One has to take into consideration the circumstances one is raised in, culture etc. That plays a huge role also. When you read about Jack Ma, although he failed to get a job at KFC, that did not deter him but rather egged him on. He is/was just a hustler with a keen eye to identify opportunities in the worse situations.

ChuckMcM 11y ago

It is an interesting claim. I think Harvard would still reject him, he doesn't seem to fit in with what a "Harvard Man" is. The mistake is thinking that Harvard wants all the successful people in the world to go there, as far as I can tell they don't. Every private University recruits from their "tribe" whether it is 'quirky' at Reed or 'cosmopolitan' at Harvard, while not discriminating on race, religion, Etc they do pick people who create a community "like them". The weird conflict comes in when someone like Jack, who by many accounts would have not "fit in" with the community at Harvard (he would have been fine at MIT I suspect) but Jack gets focused on "Harvard is the 'best' so I really want to go there." which isn't focused on the question of whether it is the best for him. I really encourage folks to find a college that fits them rather than picking a college by some score it has. If you are lucky the college will reject you if you don't fit and that will save you from a bad experience there, if you are unlucky you'll get in and hate the experience.

contergan 11y ago
>while not discriminating on race Affirmative action IS discrimination on race. AFAIK Harvard has been sued because of that not too long ago - I don't know the outcome though.
- Retric 11y ago
  Not necessarily, if hypothetically silver people make up 20% of the population, but due to cultural bias in testing they make up 10% of the student body you could correct for that bias without discriminating. For an actual example, rich people tend to look better on Harvard applications, but preform worse at Harvard than poor people. Adjusting for a bias in the application process would not be discrimination based on income.
- swframe 11y ago
  If you strongly feel that affirmative action is wrong then the best way to end it is to end racial segregation in housing and K-12 education. When colleges see that all kids are getting the same opportunities they will end their programs to correct for that societal flaw. It seems very shortsighted to think that displacing affirmative action students is the best way to improve our society or that not getting into Harvard will take something from you that you deserve or need.

mrdrozdov 11y ago

There is so much more to this video than Jack Ma's rejection from Harvard. His company, Alibaba, is second only to Walmart in e-commerce business. He talks about Alibaba's success internationally (places like Russia and Norway). He also talks about the company's relationship with government regarding technology projects and privacy.

vlunkr 11y ago
Thank you. That's really a small part of the video. I get the sense that most of these comments are coming from people who didn't watch it.
- sidekick 11y ago
  Agreed. Having watched the video after reading the comments, I am actually rather disappointed at some of the negative things written here. The interview contains a lot of other more inspiring stories than just his Harvard rejections. For example, he talks about how he comes from a pretty bad elementary school, how he learned about the internet, how Alibaba got its name, how none of his capital came from the government, that Alibaba's workforce is actually ~47% women, how he rather would be respected than be rich, and his philosophy on businesses helping people. Near the end, he says: "I believe when you have 1 million dollars, that’s your money. When you have 20 million dollars, you start to have problems, worry about inflation, worry about which stock to buy, this and that - When you have 1 billion dollars, that’s not your money. That’s the trust society gives you. They believe you can manage the money - use the money better than the government, than the others. So I think today, I have the resources to do more things. With the money we have, with the influence we have, we should spend more time on the young people."
  - vlunkr 11y ago
    He also said that his goal is always to keep his employees happy, so they in turn keep the customers happy. Lots of companies out there have that backwards.

pdabbadabba 11y ago

I'm surprised that people still find such claims interesting. Colleges like Harvard are so popular that many people like Ma are inevitably going to be excluded. It doesn't mean much. There are at least three things going on: 1) Harvard has to make its decision on the basis of limited information. 2) Even if Harvard had perfect information, there are probably more 'ideal' candidates in the world than Harvard could hope to admit. Most are still going to be excluded. 3) Just because Jack Ma has become successful doesn't mean he would have been a good fit for Harvard. Success in entrepreneurship is not the ultimate educational goal for all (or even most) people, and does not necessary reflect all the qualities that a school like Harvard wants in its students (except, cynically, the ability to make big donations later in life...). So where does this leave us? Don't beat yourself up if you don't get into Harvard. Most successful people didn't. But, at the same time, actually going to Harvard (and schools like it) remains an incredible opportunity for those who are admitted and have suitably aligned educational goals.

angdis 11y ago

Maybe that's the best thing that ever happened to him? If he had gone to Harvard, he could very well have ended up as a well-paid, well-connected cog in a huge corporation. Whatever, I find it useless to think about what 1-in-a-billion entrepreneurs do or don't do. Harvard is a fine university and anyone who gets admitted should count themselves lucky and privileged. Those that don't, well, there's plenty of other excellent options.

clips 11y ago

I think the interview is worth watching entirely as it's so much more than a rejection from an elite institution such as Harvard. Rejection from KFC, from even middle school -- these stories are just as powerful if not much more so.

yuncun 11y ago

I grew up in a Chinese household, and I swear, Chinese people are way too obsessed with university branding. It's not even about quality of education, it's a cultural status phenomenon. If you take 10 mothers, the dick size of each one is directly proportional to the US News (yes, specifically US News) ranking of the university of her child. And if Timmy, some random kid in school, had a 2380 SAT, then as a fellow Chinese kid, you'd hear about it somehow. Thankfully my parents weren't this crazy, but I've seen Chinese families spend thousands on SAT preps, or parents discouraging their kids from playing sports to chase a 4.4 GPA. I hear it's even worse in areas like Cupertino. I mean, I respect the pusuit of education, but this obsession with college is a poisonous byproduct. Those kids aren't even better off after college anyways. It's all pride. Look at Jack Ma. 22.5 Billion dollars, and Harvard is still like Gatsby's Daisy to him.

xienze 11y ago
Valid point, but there's something to be said for the Asian American community's obsession with education. Is it any surprise that they are the most successful minority group in America?
- maneesh 11y ago
  Not even close to the success of Indian Americans
  - kaitai 11y ago
    Who don't have as many PhDs per capita as Nigerian Americans (tops in the US!).
- Apocryphon 11y ago
  Self-selection bias. The Asian American community is immensely diverse and consists of many different immigrant (and native!) waves. Wealthy, well-educated Taiwanese semiconductor engineers from the '70s and '80s are not the same as LA Korean grocers are not the same as Vietnamese boat people are not the same as Hmong refugees are not the same as recent mainland Chinese nouveau riche are not the same as Nisei and Sansei who have been in the U.S. for decades are not the same as Pacific Islanders or South Asians or Middle Easterners.

xacaxulu 11y ago

thelastpsychiatrist has a great exposé on the Harvard cheating scandal that speaks to the 'everyone passes xyz classes' claims. http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/09/the_harvard_cheating_scandal_i.html http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/09/the_harvard_cheating_...

markbao 11y ago

I'm surprised they let him apply ten times. I was rejected from Stanford three times and didn't allow me to apply a fourth time.

Retra 11y ago
As long as you're paying application fees, why should they stop you from trying?

roymurdock 11y ago

On being asked what he worries about: I worry today that a lot of young people lose hope, lose vision, and start to complain. We also had the same problem - it's not a good feeling being rejected by so many people. We were also depressed. But at least later, we find that the world has a lot of opportunity, how you see the world, how you catch the opportunity.

curiousjorge 11y ago

how successful do I need to be in order to be accepted into Harvard MBA from a western province university with mediocre GPA? How much much under the table damn it. You have no idea how much social capital an ivy league degree gives you in Korea, no idea! (ex. generous bank loans, women, social status, tv shows, your own kpop girl group wow!)

Kenji 11y ago

Most inspirational part: "If everybody agreed with me, if everybody believed my/our idea is good, we'd have no chance!"

exelius 11y ago

The qualities that make someone a successful entrepreneur often make them a poor student / employee. The same disregard of authority that makes people say "Why can't I do that? Who is going to stop me?" tends to lead you to more interesting conclusions than solving 40 problems from a math textbook. But keep in mind that Harvard's goal isn't to recruit the best students; it's to create an environment where the well-connected can co-mingle with accomplished academics. This is why Harvard and other Ivy League schools admit "legacy" students: it's an explicit recognition that sometimes, who you know does matter. If you have a good mix of smart people, driven people, and politically savvy people from powerful families, they can help push each other to great heights. I'm not so sure if the model works as well anymore, but also keep in mind that Harvard is almost 400 years old. It worked well for a long time.

gkanai 11y ago

Alibaba is indeed a force in China (and less-so globally) but the stock price is doing pretty poorly (down below IPO price.) https://www.google.com/finance?q=baba&ei=fFT4VanDAdLisAHx9r74Bw https://www.google.com/finance?q=baba&ei=fFT4VanDAdLisAHx9r7... It's a bit weird to see him lauded at WEF when, say Twitter, which is also below IPO price, is in fire-fighting mode (without CEO, etc.)

srisaila 11y ago

Above all, what matters is your true grit. There're MIT's in India, too. A renowned aerospace scientist, former President of India Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam was an alumnus of Madras Institute of Technology (MIT). The current CEO of Microsoft Satya Nadella got his engineering degree from Manipal Institute of Technology (MIT). Think about the autodidacts listed at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_autodidacts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_autodidacts