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Are any businesses avoiding using React because of the power it gives Facebook - where they can sue you however if they infringe on your copyright or patents or

by loceng 11y ago

Are any businesses avoiding using React because of the power it gives Facebook - where they can sue you however if they infringe on your copyright or patents or other then you can't sue them because you'll lose the license to use React - along anything else they've released? You can say it is a fair practice for a private company, however I am wondering what business operations and founders are thinking.

spicyj 11y ago
I'm not a lawyer, but you might have missed this clause in the patent grant: > Notwithstanding the foregoing, if Facebook or any of its subsidiaries or corporate affiliates files a lawsuit alleging patent infringement against you in the first instance, and you respond by filing a patent infringement counterclaim in that lawsuit against that party that is unrelated to the Software, the license granted hereunder will not terminate under section (i) of this paragraph due to such counterclaim. Also consider that most open-source licenses make no mention of patents at all, so you have no assurance that the company won't come after you for patents in their software.
- loceng 11y ago
  Your example is solely if THEY initiate a lawsuit then you're allowed to respond, not if they do something against you that warrants suing them first. Edit: E.g. They can copy your whole business, design and all, and if you're using React and sue them - then they can use that against you / you'd have to immediately cease using it; I'm not actually sure what the outcome would be if a license automatically expires.
  - matthewmacleod 11y ago
    Your example is solely if THEY initiate a lawsuit then you're allowed to respond, not if they do something against you that warrants suing them first. Note that this is specifically regarding a patent assertion; i.e. the patent grant is not revoked if you bring legal action against Facebook for another reason, including trademark or copyright issues. Edit: E.g. They can copy your whole business, design and all, and if you're using React and sue them - then they can use that against you See above – this would specifically only apply to patents. you'd have to immediately cease using it This is not necessarily true – it just means that you lose your patent grant to React. There is no assertion here that Facebook hold any patents on React. It's obvious why this would be the case – if you bring a patent suit against Facebook, then they revoke any patent license they've granted you. I would expect any patent license – for open-source software or otherwise – to be the same. Granted, this does nothing to affect the wider issue of a broken patent system.
matthewmacleod 11y ago
This is no longer true. It was at one point, but Facebook have since amended their patent grant as a result of public pressure.
- loceng 11y ago
  I'm fairly sure you're mistaken. They changed it so it was better, however you still can't sue them or take any acton against them or the license is revoked. Edit: > The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and without notice, if you (or any of your subsidiaries, corporate affiliates or agents) initiate directly or indirectly, or take a direct financial interest in, any Patent Assertion: (i) against Facebook or any of its subsidiaries or corporate affiliates, (ii) against any party if such Patent Assertion arises in whole or in part from any software, technology, product or service of Facebook or any of its subsidiaries or corporate affiliates, or (iii) against any party relating to the Software.
  - matthewmacleod 11y ago
    Do note that the clause you quote applies only to patent assertions. This means that your patent license is revoked if you bring a patent action against Facebook (or if you sure someone else for using React), but not if e.g. you sue them for infringing your copyright, or any other matter. This does seem like it would be a standard clause for any patent agreement with another party, but IANAL.

by loceng 11y ago

spicyj 11y ago

I'm not a lawyer, but you might have missed this clause in the patent grant: > Notwithstanding the foregoing, if Facebook or any of its subsidiaries or corporate affiliates files a lawsuit alleging patent infringement against you in the first instance, and you respond by filing a patent infringement counterclaim in that lawsuit against that party that is unrelated to the Software, the license granted hereunder will not terminate under section (i) of this paragraph due to such counterclaim. Also consider that most open-source licenses make no mention of patents at all, so you have no assurance that the company won't come after you for patents in their software.

loceng 11y ago
Your example is solely if THEY initiate a lawsuit then you're allowed to respond, not if they do something against you that warrants suing them first. Edit: E.g. They can copy your whole business, design and all, and if you're using React and sue them - then they can use that against you / you'd have to immediately cease using it; I'm not actually sure what the outcome would be if a license automatically expires.
- matthewmacleod 11y ago
  Your example is solely if THEY initiate a lawsuit then you're allowed to respond, not if they do something against you that warrants suing them first. Note that this is specifically regarding a patent assertion; i.e. the patent grant is not revoked if you bring legal action against Facebook for another reason, including trademark or copyright issues. Edit: E.g. They can copy your whole business, design and all, and if you're using React and sue them - then they can use that against you See above – this would specifically only apply to patents. you'd have to immediately cease using it This is not necessarily true – it just means that you lose your patent grant to React. There is no assertion here that Facebook hold any patents on React. It's obvious why this would be the case – if you bring a patent suit against Facebook, then they revoke any patent license they've granted you. I would expect any patent license – for open-source software or otherwise – to be the same. Granted, this does nothing to affect the wider issue of a broken patent system.

matthewmacleod 11y ago

This is no longer true. It was at one point, but Facebook have since amended their patent grant as a result of public pressure.

loceng 11y ago
I'm fairly sure you're mistaken. They changed it so it was better, however you still can't sue them or take any acton against them or the license is revoked. Edit: > The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and without notice, if you (or any of your subsidiaries, corporate affiliates or agents) initiate directly or indirectly, or take a direct financial interest in, any Patent Assertion: (i) against Facebook or any of its subsidiaries or corporate affiliates, (ii) against any party if such Patent Assertion arises in whole or in part from any software, technology, product or service of Facebook or any of its subsidiaries or corporate affiliates, or (iii) against any party relating to the Software.
- matthewmacleod 11y ago
  Do note that the clause you quote applies only to patent assertions. This means that your patent license is revoked if you bring a patent action against Facebook (or if you sure someone else for using React), but not if e.g. you sue them for infringing your copyright, or any other matter. This does seem like it would be a standard clause for any patent agreement with another party, but IANAL.