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Isn't that the point of the RFC process ? It's right there in the name "Request for Comment". The whole point of the RFC structure is that it forces you to lay

Isn't that the point of the RFC process ? It's right there in the name "Request for Comment". The whole point of the RFC structure is that it forces you to lay out what someone would need to implement your RFC, which is what you need to even begin the discussion on a new standard. A lot of the successful early internet standards followed this path. They weren't written by committee, they were written by one person with an idea to make things better. And I only consider it whining if you point out the flaws, then don't do something about the flaws using the process for correcting them. The internet was built by the RFC process and its poorer these days because people feel to follow it is "a bit of hard work".

Anthony-G 11y ago
The documents may be called “Requests for Comments” but in reality, most of the modern RFCs dealing with Internet protocols simply became de facto standards – until they were superseded by subsequent RFCs.
adrusi 11y ago
which is what you need to even begin the discussion on a new standard. I only consider it whining if you point out the flaws, then don't do something about the flaws using the process for correcting them. To even begin discussion? The discussion begins with pointing out the flaws. One person writes an article pointing out some flaws in a technology, then people comment saying how X is actually not a flaw, and how Y is also quite a major flaw. After that you start focusing on brainstorming ideas that address these flaws. Then you refine those ideas and come up with some specification or prototype implementation (followed by a specification based on it). All this has to happen before what you claim to be the beginning of the discussion. You can do all of these things in private, maybe consulting a couple friends and colleagues, but you don't have to. You can also do it completely out in the open, on a public forum. In doing so you increase the noise, but you also increase the signal. Do you consider this process whining?

Anthony-G 11y ago

The documents may be called “Requests for Comments” but in reality, most of the modern RFCs dealing with Internet protocols simply became de facto standards – until they were superseded by subsequent RFCs.

adrusi 11y ago

which is what you need to even begin the discussion on a new standard. I only consider it whining if you point out the flaws, then don't do something about the flaws using the process for correcting them. To even begin discussion? The discussion begins with pointing out the flaws. One person writes an article pointing out some flaws in a technology, then people comment saying how X is actually not a flaw, and how Y is also quite a major flaw. After that you start focusing on brainstorming ideas that address these flaws. Then you refine those ideas and come up with some specification or prototype implementation (followed by a specification based on it). All this has to happen before what you claim to be the beginning of the discussion. You can do all of these things in private, maybe consulting a couple friends and colleagues, but you don't have to. You can also do it completely out in the open, on a public forum. In doing so you increase the noise, but you also increase the signal. Do you consider this process whining?