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And dont forget the > 15% space occupied on average in cities by parking. If utilization of cars increase with Uber/self-driving etc, we could see a lot of spac

And dont forget the > 15% space occupied on average in cities by parking. If utilization of cars increase with Uber/self-driving etc, we could see a lot of space cleared up too

toomuchtodo 11y ago
You'll still need parking, but you can put it underground in lights out parking facilities.
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  Or you can have it do useful tasks. Have a car fleet that's passenger-only during peak times, but couriers packages/freight during its downtime.
  - peatmoss 11y ago
    This is an excellent point. 95% idle rate of vehicle fleet is a huge opportunity frontier for businesses. Whoever figures out how to capitalize most on this is going to win big. I don't think it's an accident that Uber has been experimenting with hauling other kinds of things in its cars. I think it's possible we may see a time when most vehicles stay in the network, and rarely need to sit idle. That would be ideal certainly!
- fillskills 11y ago
  Yep. The goal being to reduce that 15% to something like 2-3%. I wouldn't be surprised if car ownership becomes 0% by the time my kids grow up. Cars will essentially become like trains - owned and operated by companies trying to make a profit. You just pay for the ride or get a monthly pass.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    > I wouldn't be surprised if car ownership becomes 0% by the time my kids grow up. Cars will essentially become like trains - owned and operated by companies trying to make a profit. You just pay for the ride or get a monthly pass. We can only hope so. Think how much people work for a resource that sits idle 95% of the time. New vehicle sales this year are at ~17 million units a year, with the average price being ~$35K/USD/year. That's $595 billion/year being spent on something sitting around most of the time. Just think about how much less work people would have to do if they didn't need to own a car.
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    The down side is that not only is all of your data on your movements tracked, but it is also being sold to others, including the government. Another nail in privacy's coffin.
    - peatmoss 11y ago
      Anonymous vehicular travel is dead or soon-to-be-dead anyway. Police are routinely using license plate scanners for parking enforcement and for checking vehicle alert status. Toll facilities are using license plate scanning to bill you for congestion fees. Smart phone apps report your whereabouts sometimes by choice, sometimes not. This isn't to say that pervasive tracking of individuals' whereabouts isn't a problem. I just think that self-driving cars aren't going to make the situation any worse than it is / will already be (exact timing is modulo your present jurisdiction).
ma2rten 11y ago
And don't forget the economic impact. Think about all those people whos job it is to drive: truck drivers, bus drivers, taxi drivers.
- Kalium 11y ago
  What of them?
- peatmoss 11y ago
  This is a real problem that society is going to need to solve. But the safety and environmental upsides of replacing human drivers are going to be huge too. I certainly hope the market creates new opportunities for displaced blue-collar workers, but I'm not optimistic on that point. Short of utopian sounding solutions like the basic wage, I'm really not sure how our economy will take care of people as we automate more and more formerly manual tasks.
mikepurvis 11y ago
This is enormous— both the massive parking lots often consuming choice real estate and negatively impacting walkability, as well as the street-side parking which could be repurposed as improved infrastructure for cycling. I'm 29, married with two young kids. We're excited to ditch our vehicle and never look back.

And dont forget the > 15% space occupied on average in cities by parking. If utilization of cars increase with Uber/self-driving etc, we could see a lot of space cleared up too

toomuchtodo 11y ago

You'll still need parking, but you can put it underground in lights out parking facilities.

ceejayoz 11y ago
Or you can have it do useful tasks. Have a car fleet that's passenger-only during peak times, but couriers packages/freight during its downtime.
- peatmoss 11y ago
  This is an excellent point. 95% idle rate of vehicle fleet is a huge opportunity frontier for businesses. Whoever figures out how to capitalize most on this is going to win big. I don't think it's an accident that Uber has been experimenting with hauling other kinds of things in its cars. I think it's possible we may see a time when most vehicles stay in the network, and rarely need to sit idle. That would be ideal certainly!
fillskills 11y ago
Yep. The goal being to reduce that 15% to something like 2-3%. I wouldn't be surprised if car ownership becomes 0% by the time my kids grow up. Cars will essentially become like trains - owned and operated by companies trying to make a profit. You just pay for the ride or get a monthly pass.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  > I wouldn't be surprised if car ownership becomes 0% by the time my kids grow up. Cars will essentially become like trains - owned and operated by companies trying to make a profit. You just pay for the ride or get a monthly pass. We can only hope so. Think how much people work for a resource that sits idle 95% of the time. New vehicle sales this year are at ~17 million units a year, with the average price being ~$35K/USD/year. That's $595 billion/year being spent on something sitting around most of the time. Just think about how much less work people would have to do if they didn't need to own a car.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  The down side is that not only is all of your data on your movements tracked, but it is also being sold to others, including the government. Another nail in privacy's coffin.
  - peatmoss 11y ago
    Anonymous vehicular travel is dead or soon-to-be-dead anyway. Police are routinely using license plate scanners for parking enforcement and for checking vehicle alert status. Toll facilities are using license plate scanning to bill you for congestion fees. Smart phone apps report your whereabouts sometimes by choice, sometimes not. This isn't to say that pervasive tracking of individuals' whereabouts isn't a problem. I just think that self-driving cars aren't going to make the situation any worse than it is / will already be (exact timing is modulo your present jurisdiction).

ma2rten 11y ago

And don't forget the economic impact. Think about all those people whos job it is to drive: truck drivers, bus drivers, taxi drivers.

Kalium 11y ago
What of them?
peatmoss 11y ago
This is a real problem that society is going to need to solve. But the safety and environmental upsides of replacing human drivers are going to be huge too. I certainly hope the market creates new opportunities for displaced blue-collar workers, but I'm not optimistic on that point. Short of utopian sounding solutions like the basic wage, I'm really not sure how our economy will take care of people as we automate more and more formerly manual tasks.

mikepurvis 11y ago

This is enormous— both the massive parking lots often consuming choice real estate and negatively impacting walkability, as well as the street-side parking which could be repurposed as improved infrastructure for cycling. I'm 29, married with two young kids. We're excited to ditch our vehicle and never look back.