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The problem with these 'who can consume the most' competitions to game the system is that there are 'external costs' placed on everyone else. Planes are noisy,

The problem with these 'who can consume the most' competitions to game the system is that there are 'external costs' placed on everyone else. Planes are noisy, they pollute and they crash. In West London the annoyance begins at 4.30 a.m. and goes on until 11 at night, with another plane load of really important people arriving every two minutes. If we didn't have people going about on senseless travel all the time then the airport could be closed for long enough for people in West London to get some uninterrupted sleep. I don't think people gobbling up air miles care about these 'externalities'. I know they can't see past their own greed, but, what about noise, climate change and the fact that we do not have more than one planet's worth of hydrocarbons to waste? Also, fun that it may have been in Madeira, Madeira used to be unspoilt. The place deserves better than some idiot hiring cars and driving them in circles all day. Again, noise, pollution and wastage. Despite the photos, I don't believe this is 'take only photos, leave only footprints', driving around madly for one day is not doing justice to what Madeira has to offer. It is quite an insulting attitude, typical for an American where community was swapped for this inane frequent flyer culture where nobody knows their neighbour or cares about things like the planet. I do not actually fly any more, mainly because I have better things to do with my time (not because I think that I can save the planet by using my bicycle instead). In the work context I get more done from the one desk than those around me that have to do lots of flying for 'work'. I am also quite bemused at those that do travel for leisure - these days they come back and have nothing to say on their first day back, it is not like they are infused with mega-enthusiasm from the amazing things they saw and people they made acquaintance with. Did I not get the memo that you must not talk about your holiday?!? Also odd with the mass-flying-disease is that the fuel in those planes is not taxed. Would these air miles schemes work if things were taxed properly? People that fly don't tend to care about that. You would think they would think about that whilst being waited on by effective slaves in parts of the world where human labour is not considered a valuable resource to be rewarded accordingly.

icebraining 11y ago
I think that's overreacting. As pointed out, the earned miles are not that many (a couple of Europe-US roundtrips), and the 37 trips of 1.2km to get the promotion weren't exactly that many either. As for the "insulting attitude", who exactly is feeling insulted? Nobody from Madeira I know (I'm Portuguese myself, so I know a few) would feel "insulted". Curiously, the people I know who travel more by plane are those from Madeira (and Açores), since they don't have access to a lot of stuff in the islands. In reality, their lifestyle is much more polluting than someone who pulls a stunt like this every few years.
- Theodores 11y ago
  I look back on air travel of former times with incredulity - being able to smoke on a plane is one excerpt that particularly takes the biscuit. Concorde was quite incredible too, but the world has moved on to this new madness of easy-hack TSA locks, bullshit terror stories and lame air miles schemes. (As it happens I am looking after a house right now because the occupants have gone on a cheap flight made possible through some frequent flyer scheme.) People also used to go mad for Green Shield stamps from garages, racking up far more miles on the road as a 'sales rep' than needed because there was this marginal incentive of rubbish you could get with the Green Shield stamps. It all worked wonderfully for a while and many people were delighted getting things like 50 glass tumblers for their kitchen cupboards. I am sure the people next to the Avis depots around the world are used to people revving up their engines, slamming doors and shouting, but that does not make it right. If you had something important to do, how would you feel if there was someone parking a car every few minutes outside your place to drive off again a few minutes later, repeating ad-nauseum? I personally would not feel happy doing that sort of 'driving' even if I was in some faceless bit of American surburbia where such activity was normal. I might not have cared when I was a teenager but I didn't think very well in those days. I also have connections with Madeira and I have seen the old photos from how things used to be before the E.U. plonked some massive airport and motorway there. It is a small island with a big runway, no surprise people on the island use it instead of hitching a ride on a fishing boat. I have not stood outside the departures lounge to count natives vs tourists but I am sure that whole infrastructure was built for tourism, not so grandma in Funchal can visit her relatives spread out all over the globe.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    I would I feel? I wouldn't particularly care. Is it wasteful? Yes. Do I find it kind of dumb? Sure. But is it terrible? Unless he was constantly doing it, not really. Frankly, I doubt the problem here is really the pollution, but the fact that he's spending that in something not considered "proper." Some guy might waste much more taking a long vacation in some remote place, but the fact that this person was doing something you and I consider dumb, makes him not deserve to do so. But I personally don't consider a person who produces 1T of CO2/year to "travel properly" or "really know" the place they're visiting any more deserving that someone who wastes the same amount to drive between Avis stands. Unless he's actually wasting more than average - and we have no reason to think that - who am I to tell him how to enjoy his life?
rconti 11y ago
What indication do you have that 37rentals is an American? Is it necessary that he be American for your bias to work correctly? Your seem to revel in false nostalgia and projecting on folks who choose to travel for leisure. When I travel, I see and experience so much that it is difficult to distill into a 2 minute soundbite for some coworker I do not know particularly well just to make smalltalk. That does not mean that I didn't have a fantastic experience, and I certainly don't wish for you to take it as a data point that things were better in the good old days. It seems choosing a home in the flight path of a major international air hub was not the best move for someone with such critical views of humanity. That's not to say I disagree with you; I, too, have negative feelings about these kinds of wasteful competitions. But I think you're going way overboard.

icebraining 11y ago

I think that's overreacting. As pointed out, the earned miles are not that many (a couple of Europe-US roundtrips), and the 37 trips of 1.2km to get the promotion weren't exactly that many either. As for the "insulting attitude", who exactly is feeling insulted? Nobody from Madeira I know (I'm Portuguese myself, so I know a few) would feel "insulted". Curiously, the people I know who travel more by plane are those from Madeira (and Açores), since they don't have access to a lot of stuff in the islands. In reality, their lifestyle is much more polluting than someone who pulls a stunt like this every few years.

Theodores 11y ago
I look back on air travel of former times with incredulity - being able to smoke on a plane is one excerpt that particularly takes the biscuit. Concorde was quite incredible too, but the world has moved on to this new madness of easy-hack TSA locks, bullshit terror stories and lame air miles schemes. (As it happens I am looking after a house right now because the occupants have gone on a cheap flight made possible through some frequent flyer scheme.) People also used to go mad for Green Shield stamps from garages, racking up far more miles on the road as a 'sales rep' than needed because there was this marginal incentive of rubbish you could get with the Green Shield stamps. It all worked wonderfully for a while and many people were delighted getting things like 50 glass tumblers for their kitchen cupboards. I am sure the people next to the Avis depots around the world are used to people revving up their engines, slamming doors and shouting, but that does not make it right. If you had something important to do, how would you feel if there was someone parking a car every few minutes outside your place to drive off again a few minutes later, repeating ad-nauseum? I personally would not feel happy doing that sort of 'driving' even if I was in some faceless bit of American surburbia where such activity was normal. I might not have cared when I was a teenager but I didn't think very well in those days. I also have connections with Madeira and I have seen the old photos from how things used to be before the E.U. plonked some massive airport and motorway there. It is a small island with a big runway, no surprise people on the island use it instead of hitching a ride on a fishing boat. I have not stood outside the departures lounge to count natives vs tourists but I am sure that whole infrastructure was built for tourism, not so grandma in Funchal can visit her relatives spread out all over the globe.
- icebraining 11y ago
  I would I feel? I wouldn't particularly care. Is it wasteful? Yes. Do I find it kind of dumb? Sure. But is it terrible? Unless he was constantly doing it, not really. Frankly, I doubt the problem here is really the pollution, but the fact that he's spending that in something not considered "proper." Some guy might waste much more taking a long vacation in some remote place, but the fact that this person was doing something you and I consider dumb, makes him not deserve to do so. But I personally don't consider a person who produces 1T of CO2/year to "travel properly" or "really know" the place they're visiting any more deserving that someone who wastes the same amount to drive between Avis stands. Unless he's actually wasting more than average - and we have no reason to think that - who am I to tell him how to enjoy his life?

rconti 11y ago

What indication do you have that 37rentals is an American? Is it necessary that he be American for your bias to work correctly? Your seem to revel in false nostalgia and projecting on folks who choose to travel for leisure. When I travel, I see and experience so much that it is difficult to distill into a 2 minute soundbite for some coworker I do not know particularly well just to make smalltalk. That does not mean that I didn't have a fantastic experience, and I certainly don't wish for you to take it as a data point that things were better in the good old days. It seems choosing a home in the flight path of a major international air hub was not the best move for someone with such critical views of humanity. That's not to say I disagree with you; I, too, have negative feelings about these kinds of wasteful competitions. But I think you're going way overboard.