4 ms·

Interesting in such cases that the focus seems to be so much on retribution, whereas many other proceedings are more on deterrence (steal something = go to jail

by graeham 11y ago

Interesting in such cases that the focus seems to be so much on retribution, whereas many other proceedings are more on deterrence (steal something = go to jail) or prevention (murder = locked up to prevent future crimes). Here, the crime seems to be usually without motive, except perhaps a short-term rage. Presumably, the accused was unable to stop their actions (no point in deterrence) and would rarely be in such a position again (compared to serial criminals or crimes caused by incompetence).

s_kilk 11y ago
What can be said? The mob is irrational. When they hear of a child dying it doesn't much matter who, what, how or why, somebody's got to pay.
toothbrush 11y ago
> (murder = locked up to prevent future crimes) I find it a particular pity that more correctional institutions aren't focused on exactly that: correction. I have the impression that even the examples you cite of "other proceedings more on [sic] deterrence .. or prevention" are rather retribution-based. I would be in favour of less incarceration and more rehabilitation and reinsertion into society as happy/useful participants. Aside from a minority of actual sociopaths and/or sadists which might or might not be a result of nature as opposed to nurture, i believe that most people would not commit the crimes they commit if they had access to better welfare/education/neighbourhoods/etc. It seems like much (even violent) crime is more of a symptom than an end in itself... But i may be wrong there.
- scrupulusalbion 11y ago
  > I would be in favour of less incarceration and more rehabilitation and reinsertion into society as happy/useful participants While I agree that mere incarceration is often fruitless in terms of helping the person being incarcerated, one must be careful to not replace prison with brainwashing, to put it bluntly. That is, rehabilitation might work with narcotic addictions, but social issues (I am categorizing violence as a social issue, because it necessarily involves interaction between two or more persons) revolve around opinions, beliefs, conscious and unconscious assumptions about others, etc. I recall movies and TV show episodes revolving around the totalitarian nature of some criminal justice system that seeks to fix inmates's behavior through overt (torture) or covert (therapy, interviewing, social engineering, etc.) means. > I believe that most people would not commit the crimes they commit if they had access to better welfare/education/neighbourhoods/etc. This is essentially the idea that poverty causes crime, which is a controversial position. This might be why you have gotten downvoted.
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    >While I agree that mere incarceration is often fruitless in terms of helping the person being incarcerated, one must be careful to not replace prison with brainwashing, to put it bluntly. We already do. Some crimes requires an individual to go to therapy and if they don't meet certain goals, they are held in prison longer (or otherwise not given certain privileges while in prison). But often those therapist are working with outdated therapy models and sometimes working on assumptions that aren't even agreed upon as true.
Lawtonfogle 11y ago
>Here, the crime seems to be usually without motive, except perhaps a short-term rage. Presumably, the accused was unable to stop their actions (no point in deterrence) and would rarely be in such a position again (compared to serial criminals or crimes caused by incompetence). This also covers a lot of cases of murder. For example, someone who kills their spouse having caught them cheating... as long as they stay out of relationships they won't be in that same situation again. We do reduce the penalty if done in a fit of rage (second degree murder instead of first degree), but we often still add a lengthy sentence still.

by graeham 11y ago

s_kilk 11y ago

What can be said? The mob is irrational. When they hear of a child dying it doesn't much matter who, what, how or why, somebody's got to pay.

toothbrush 11y ago

> (murder = locked up to prevent future crimes) I find it a particular pity that more correctional institutions aren't focused on exactly that: correction. I have the impression that even the examples you cite of "other proceedings more on [sic] deterrence .. or prevention" are rather retribution-based. I would be in favour of less incarceration and more rehabilitation and reinsertion into society as happy/useful participants. Aside from a minority of actual sociopaths and/or sadists which might or might not be a result of nature as opposed to nurture, i believe that most people would not commit the crimes they commit if they had access to better welfare/education/neighbourhoods/etc. It seems like much (even violent) crime is more of a symptom than an end in itself... But i may be wrong there.

scrupulusalbion 11y ago
> I would be in favour of less incarceration and more rehabilitation and reinsertion into society as happy/useful participants While I agree that mere incarceration is often fruitless in terms of helping the person being incarcerated, one must be careful to not replace prison with brainwashing, to put it bluntly. That is, rehabilitation might work with narcotic addictions, but social issues (I am categorizing violence as a social issue, because it necessarily involves interaction between two or more persons) revolve around opinions, beliefs, conscious and unconscious assumptions about others, etc. I recall movies and TV show episodes revolving around the totalitarian nature of some criminal justice system that seeks to fix inmates's behavior through overt (torture) or covert (therapy, interviewing, social engineering, etc.) means. > I believe that most people would not commit the crimes they commit if they had access to better welfare/education/neighbourhoods/etc. This is essentially the idea that poverty causes crime, which is a controversial position. This might be why you have gotten downvoted.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  >While I agree that mere incarceration is often fruitless in terms of helping the person being incarcerated, one must be careful to not replace prison with brainwashing, to put it bluntly. We already do. Some crimes requires an individual to go to therapy and if they don't meet certain goals, they are held in prison longer (or otherwise not given certain privileges while in prison). But often those therapist are working with outdated therapy models and sometimes working on assumptions that aren't even agreed upon as true.

Lawtonfogle 11y ago

>Here, the crime seems to be usually without motive, except perhaps a short-term rage. Presumably, the accused was unable to stop their actions (no point in deterrence) and would rarely be in such a position again (compared to serial criminals or crimes caused by incompetence). This also covers a lot of cases of murder. For example, someone who kills their spouse having caught them cheating... as long as they stay out of relationships they won't be in that same situation again. We do reduce the penalty if done in a fit of rage (second degree murder instead of first degree), but we often still add a lengthy sentence still.