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This regulations deal with working from home for the home owner( or similar). Yes you can deduct some costs, because this benefit your company/work/etc. But if

by ccozan 11y ago

This regulations deal with working from home for the home owner( or similar). Yes you can deduct some costs, because this benefit your company/work/etc. But if I am inviting you in my house, put a table at disposal, wifi, meals, etc, unless you pay for this, there is no legal implication. Not even insurance. That's why I was asking how much it costs. From the website it seems like a hobby and not a real business, like hosting people in house to work from there and be paid for this.

austinjp 11y ago
(Not disagreeing, just pursuing this thought) There may be tax issues with hosting a Hoffice, even if you as a host don't charge anything. If a UK tax inspector walks into your private home, does it look like a private home? Or does it look like a business? If it looks like a business, they'll investigate you. "You mean to tell me, you don't know any of these people? And you simply let them use your facilities and wi-fi?" If I was a tax inspector, I'd be all over you. It would reek of tax evasion and money laundering. But why would the tax inspector even hear about it, right? Simple: your neighbours complain to the local council about all the cars parked on your front lawn. Then the council comes knocking on your door to ask if you've got permission to display that sign in your window. You may come out of an investigation clean, but the process will be horrible. It would be good to thoroughly understand your position as a Hoffice host in advance. I know people who run businesses from home that involve occasional visitors, and these are all legit concerns here in the UK. I also know people who've got away with it for years, taking cash-in-hand payments, and keeping the council and HMRC in the dark -- personally I haven't got the temperament for that sort of "excitement" in my life.
- ccozan 11y ago
  This is really a gray area. However, as long as there are no money involved, no tax inspector or law enforcement will have anything to say. Any tax would imply an income, or a profit. Impossible to tell where is my profit in this hoffice thing. Maybe having fun? Meditation in the morning? Ten years ago I went every Thursday to a friend and we were 10 people playing CS or whatever in a really nice lanparty. What is the difference now? Hey, Mr Inspector we do a codeparty ( hackaton would immediatelly trigger other responses from law enforcement ). As long as there is no noise, no disturbance of any kind ( maybe cars in fron door, but here we speak of highly urbanized areas ), I see no reason why any law enforcement would knock on my door.
  - austinjp 11y ago
    I admire your optimistic outlook :) Like I've said, it's not whether it is a business, it's whether it looks like a business that will attract tax inspectors. A tax inspection is not trivial. If you come out clean, congratulations. But if you don't relish the prospect of the tax inspector saying to you "Okay show me your accounts plus invoices and receipts for everything for the past 5 years", followed by several weeks of accoutancy grind-work, then it's wise to be prepared in advance. Cars on the front lawn and a sign in your window are definitely reasons that the council (not the law) may visit you. Okay -- I'm done with this. I've said my piece :) In summary: 1. Good luck Hoffice! Looks great. 2. Hoffice and hosts, understand your responsibilities regarding tax and insurance. 3. Tax inspectors and council inspectors are real, and they knock on doors of people like you and me every day. 4. You should try to predict tax/legal liabilities beforehand. 5. Saying you're legit doesn't prove it. Proving it does :) And that can be a real headache. Edit: typo and formatting.
    - ccozan 11y ago
      Well, I am an optimistic person :). Summarizing, I see this problems with Hoffice: 1. Zoning problem, ie. legality of work-from-home. 2. Tax and liability of the host/guest - who is making an income or profit here? 3. Is this a business or not? On the whole, this idea is quite not regulated and might be that everything is on fringe of law or in a gray area. On the same time, indeed, wish good luck to Hoffice. I hope the have attraction and this might be more common than we think.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    > What is the difference now? The difference is that working people are using it as a location to work from. This is true even if the property owner isn't charging them money to work there. It's commercial activity.
DanBC 11y ago
> But if I am inviting you in my house, put a table at disposal, wifi, meals, etc, unless you pay for this, there is no legal implication. Not even insurance. There's definitely insurance complications! You're inviting people into your home. That means you're now liable for their health and safety even though you're not charging them. If they trip and injure themselves they claim against you. About tax: there are also "rates" (In England these are called "Council Tax") which are affected by home offices: https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/working-out-your-council-tax https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/working-out-your-council-tax I'm not saying that taxes are definitely different. I'm saying there's a strong possibility and it's surprising the hoffice website doesn't seem to mention it.
- ccozan 11y ago
  This must be some UK quirk, I haven't heard of anything similar anywhere in the world. At least in Germany you ( not me!) better have a "Haftpflichtversicherung" if you come to my house, in case you break something. So is the other way around.
  - austinjp 11y ago
    This is definitely not a UK quirk. http://www.markelinternational.com/regions/germany/products-and-expertise/specialist-sectors/professional-indemnity/ http://www.markelinternational.com/regions/germany/products-... There is a debate here about whether or not Hoffice counts as a business, and whether or not a Hoffice host would have to pay tax. To my mind, these are moot points: 1. It will look like a business, so a tax inspection is a possibility, no matter how remote. 2. Hoffice and hoffice hosts need to understand the legal situation if a guest decides to sue. You could probably be a Hoffice host for years and never have a single problem. Or you could be the unlucky one, and encounter these issues.
- austinjp 11y ago
  Exactly.

by ccozan 11y ago

austinjp 11y ago

(Not disagreeing, just pursuing this thought) There may be tax issues with hosting a Hoffice, even if you as a host don't charge anything. If a UK tax inspector walks into your private home, does it look like a private home? Or does it look like a business? If it looks like a business, they'll investigate you. "You mean to tell me, you don't know any of these people? And you simply let them use your facilities and wi-fi?" If I was a tax inspector, I'd be all over you. It would reek of tax evasion and money laundering. But why would the tax inspector even hear about it, right? Simple: your neighbours complain to the local council about all the cars parked on your front lawn. Then the council comes knocking on your door to ask if you've got permission to display that sign in your window. You may come out of an investigation clean, but the process will be horrible. It would be good to thoroughly understand your position as a Hoffice host in advance. I know people who run businesses from home that involve occasional visitors, and these are all legit concerns here in the UK. I also know people who've got away with it for years, taking cash-in-hand payments, and keeping the council and HMRC in the dark -- personally I haven't got the temperament for that sort of "excitement" in my life.

ccozan 11y ago
This is really a gray area. However, as long as there are no money involved, no tax inspector or law enforcement will have anything to say. Any tax would imply an income, or a profit. Impossible to tell where is my profit in this hoffice thing. Maybe having fun? Meditation in the morning? Ten years ago I went every Thursday to a friend and we were 10 people playing CS or whatever in a really nice lanparty. What is the difference now? Hey, Mr Inspector we do a codeparty ( hackaton would immediatelly trigger other responses from law enforcement ). As long as there is no noise, no disturbance of any kind ( maybe cars in fron door, but here we speak of highly urbanized areas ), I see no reason why any law enforcement would knock on my door.
- austinjp 11y ago
  I admire your optimistic outlook :) Like I've said, it's not whether it is a business, it's whether it looks like a business that will attract tax inspectors. A tax inspection is not trivial. If you come out clean, congratulations. But if you don't relish the prospect of the tax inspector saying to you "Okay show me your accounts plus invoices and receipts for everything for the past 5 years", followed by several weeks of accoutancy grind-work, then it's wise to be prepared in advance. Cars on the front lawn and a sign in your window are definitely reasons that the council (not the law) may visit you. Okay -- I'm done with this. I've said my piece :) In summary: 1. Good luck Hoffice! Looks great. 2. Hoffice and hosts, understand your responsibilities regarding tax and insurance. 3. Tax inspectors and council inspectors are real, and they knock on doors of people like you and me every day. 4. You should try to predict tax/legal liabilities beforehand. 5. Saying you're legit doesn't prove it. Proving it does :) And that can be a real headache. Edit: typo and formatting.
  - ccozan 11y ago
    Well, I am an optimistic person :). Summarizing, I see this problems with Hoffice: 1. Zoning problem, ie. legality of work-from-home. 2. Tax and liability of the host/guest - who is making an income or profit here? 3. Is this a business or not? On the whole, this idea is quite not regulated and might be that everything is on fringe of law or in a gray area. On the same time, indeed, wish good luck to Hoffice. I hope the have attraction and this might be more common than we think.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > What is the difference now? The difference is that working people are using it as a location to work from. This is true even if the property owner isn't charging them money to work there. It's commercial activity.

DanBC 11y ago

> But if I am inviting you in my house, put a table at disposal, wifi, meals, etc, unless you pay for this, there is no legal implication. Not even insurance. There's definitely insurance complications! You're inviting people into your home. That means you're now liable for their health and safety even though you're not charging them. If they trip and injure themselves they claim against you. About tax: there are also "rates" (In England these are called "Council Tax") which are affected by home offices: https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/working-out-your-council-tax https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/working-out-your-council-tax I'm not saying that taxes are definitely different. I'm saying there's a strong possibility and it's surprising the hoffice website doesn't seem to mention it.

ccozan 11y ago
This must be some UK quirk, I haven't heard of anything similar anywhere in the world. At least in Germany you ( not me!) better have a "Haftpflichtversicherung" if you come to my house, in case you break something. So is the other way around.
- austinjp 11y ago
  This is definitely not a UK quirk. http://www.markelinternational.com/regions/germany/products-and-expertise/specialist-sectors/professional-indemnity/ http://www.markelinternational.com/regions/germany/products-... There is a debate here about whether or not Hoffice counts as a business, and whether or not a Hoffice host would have to pay tax. To my mind, these are moot points: 1. It will look like a business, so a tax inspection is a possibility, no matter how remote. 2. Hoffice and hoffice hosts need to understand the legal situation if a guest decides to sue. You could probably be a Hoffice host for years and never have a single problem. Or you could be the unlucky one, and encounter these issues.
austinjp 11y ago
Exactly.