3 ms·

Systemd's latest conquest: the 'su' command

16 points by mariuz 11y ago

angersock 11y ago
If the behavior was never fully specified (as claimed), then it might be worth having this just to see what it breaks and what bugs it uncovers.
- digi_owl 11y ago
  What it boils down to is that as long as you stick to users and groups, su works just fine. But systemd is using cgroups and pam to do session tracking, and using su within that seems to break some elements of their tracking (or some concept within it). Thing here is that su is doing the job it has always done, so frankly it is the systemd session tracking code that is in the wrong.
  - JdeBP 11y ago
    ... as long as it is not abused. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10162451 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10162451
    - digi_owl 11y ago
      And again the issue is PAM, not SU...
  - EmanueleAina 11y ago
    True, but for most of us there's more than just groups and users. su is helpful to add other users' privileges to the current session, but there was no command to create a new full, isolated session other than logging in on a different tty or ssh'ing to localhost. `machinectl shell` now implement that feature, with the added bonus of being transparently able to log into a local container (or possibly even virtual machines).
erpellan 11y ago
Just because something has a de facto rather than de jure specification does not make it unspecified.
dang 11y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10141715 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10141715
- JdeBP 11y ago
  And https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10140690 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10140690
mangecoeur 11y ago
> death of innovation for all functions absorbed into systemd Not sure there was much innovation in 'su'... > might come to the point where one has just systemd and the kernel making up a Linux distribution I think that's kinda what they are going for...
- sam_lowry_ 11y ago
  Well, Ubuntu introduced a major usability change when it appeared.
biggerbob 11y ago
Wait? This doesn't require people to remove su right? Isn't it just a preferred alternative?
olgeni 11y ago
Not sure why it says "Linux/UNIX".

16 points by mariuz 11y ago

If the behavior was never fully specified (as claimed), then it might be worth having this just to see what it breaks and what bugs it uncovers.

digi_owl 11y ago
What it boils down to is that as long as you stick to users and groups, su works just fine. But systemd is using cgroups and pam to do session tracking, and using su within that seems to break some elements of their tracking (or some concept within it). Thing here is that su is doing the job it has always done, so frankly it is the systemd session tracking code that is in the wrong.
- JdeBP 11y ago
  ... as long as it is not abused. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10162451 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10162451
  - digi_owl 11y ago
    And again the issue is PAM, not SU...
- EmanueleAina 11y ago
  True, but for most of us there's more than just groups and users. su is helpful to add other users' privileges to the current session, but there was no command to create a new full, isolated session other than logging in on a different tty or ssh'ing to localhost. `machinectl shell` now implement that feature, with the added bonus of being transparently able to log into a local container (or possibly even virtual machines).

erpellan 11y ago

Just because something has a de facto rather than de jure specification does not make it unspecified.

dang 11y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10141715 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10141715

JdeBP 11y ago
And https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10140690 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10140690

mangecoeur 11y ago

> death of innovation for all functions absorbed into systemd Not sure there was much innovation in 'su'... > might come to the point where one has just systemd and the kernel making up a Linux distribution I think that's kinda what they are going for...

sam_lowry_ 11y ago
Well, Ubuntu introduced a major usability change when it appeared.

biggerbob 11y ago

Wait? This doesn't require people to remove su right? Isn't it just a preferred alternative?

olgeni 11y ago

Not sure why it says "Linux/UNIX".