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Question: What was the percentage of blacks and/or women at Lotus notes when Mitch sold? How many low-income/minority households is Mitch within walking dista

Question: What was the percentage of blacks and/or women at Lotus notes when Mitch sold? How many low-income/minority households is Mitch within walking distance of from his Berkeley compound? Diversity for thee, but not for me. Also, while we're discussing Things You Should Not Notice: what are the numbers as far as litigiousness of "protected" groups? If I'm looking to hire someone, non-protected status (whether it's race, unionization, etc.) means I'm more likely to hire them (all else being equal). Like the blowback from affirmative action, I don't see an objective discussion about litigation risk (whether or not it's substantiated). It's human nature to asymmetrically attribute failure to others and success to oneself. Add racial/gender rent-seeking to the equation and you get an especially potent, counterproductive miasma. Just look at Buddy and Pao - they've made entire careers out of entrepreneurial race/gender grievance litigation. Why can't all this under-utilized talent create a tech company dominated by blacks and women? Why not create a Meyerhoff like program to prove your hypothesis rather than ask me to subscribe to the latest social engineering fad?

KirinDave 11y ago
> What was the percentage of blacks and/or women at Lotus notes when Mitch sold? > How many low-income/minority households is Mitch within walking distance of from his Berkeley compound? > Diversity for thee, but not for me. Can I ask you a quick question here? What does any of this matter? Diversity isn't about protecting yourself from character assassination. It's about promoting fairness, equality, and opportunity for everyone in society. If you look in the past of anyone, you will find things they regret and things that may draw censure from the pro-diversity and intersectional feminist mindset. That's natural. That's to be expected. Society is, by any reasonable and several reproducible metrics, extremely biased in favor of white men. We all grew up influenced by that society. It is therefore almost inevitable that anyone with these sorts of experiences has and will continue to have both privilege and mistakes in their past. What matters is going forward, how we all take these things we've been fortunate enough to be handed (along with the misfortunes and difficulties we've endured) and use those to promote a fairer, more just world for those who come after us. We can sit here and argue if this messenger is the ideal messenger. Which is odd, because in many other fields we view past mistakes as a teaching opportunity. Ultimately, the people in power should cede and share some of that good fortune and cultural windfall to create a more equal world rather than waiting for history to repeat itself with violent uprisings. History suggests that such uprisings are not kind to even bystanders. > Why can't all this under-utilized talent create a tech company dominated by blacks and women? Why not create a Meyerhoff like program to prove your hypothesis ... Because creating an environment that mimics the societal advantages white men get in the US and most of the western world is infeasibly expensive. I mean, seriously. How would you even? You'd have to raise kids from birth in a theme park with meticulous care to shield them from the deleterious effects of racism and sexism. > rather than ask me to subscribe to the latest social engineering fad? Progressivism isn't a fad. It's the consistent direction of society since the dark ages.
- jdp23 11y ago
  Well said.
- striking 11y ago
  Something something just-world fallacy. http://www.spring.org.uk/2012/06/the-belief-in-a-just-world-a-fundamental-delusion.php http://www.spring.org.uk/2012/06/the-belief-in-a-just-world-... > expensive With the millions of dollars from diversity initiatives, I'm sure someone could pull it off. Also, I think you're missing the entire "classism" thing. I'm Polish, and just because I'm white doesn't mean I have the world handed to me. Kind of the opposite actually, everything that I've ever gotten in life was thanks to fighting the system (whether it was my work or my parents' work). I could say I deserve something, but honestly I don't really think I do. The world is not a fair place.
  - millermp12 11y ago
    That's strange. With all those polish jokes going around, I figured poles would be a belligerent and resentful underclass. Strange how that works. Same with asians. Or is yellow the new white?
  - KirinDave 11y ago
    The world IS fundamentally unfair. That doesn't mean that society should foster fundamentally unfair policies. I don't know why you would think that this would be wise, or after even a casual perusal of history you'd think it was novel or sustainable. > Also, I think you're missing the entire "classism" thing. I'm Polish, and just because I'm white doesn't mean I have the world handed to me. Kind of the opposite actually, everything that I've ever gotten in life was thanks to fighting the system (whether it was my work or my parents' work). It simply wasn't the subject of this conversation. "White privilege" is a specific set of special treatments you get in the US. It is not, "Magically you have a perfect life." It's undeniable that with white privilege you're less likely to be summarily executed by law enforcement, as an example. But economic and other social divides still exist. Polish and Irish people are excellent examples of other axis of discrimination and racism that still exist in the world today. > I could say I deserve something, but honestly I don't really think I do. We're all raised to accept racism as normal. It's not surprising that you feel this way. But remember, you're not the one who's history is getting them shot in the street in the US right now, so you're probably going to feel slightly less personal pain and be asked to express slightly more empathy at this exact moment.

KirinDave 11y ago

> What was the percentage of blacks and/or women at Lotus notes when Mitch sold? > How many low-income/minority households is Mitch within walking distance of from his Berkeley compound? > Diversity for thee, but not for me. Can I ask you a quick question here? What does any of this matter? Diversity isn't about protecting yourself from character assassination. It's about promoting fairness, equality, and opportunity for everyone in society. If you look in the past of anyone, you will find things they regret and things that may draw censure from the pro-diversity and intersectional feminist mindset. That's natural. That's to be expected. Society is, by any reasonable and several reproducible metrics, extremely biased in favor of white men. We all grew up influenced by that society. It is therefore almost inevitable that anyone with these sorts of experiences has and will continue to have both privilege and mistakes in their past. What matters is going forward, how we all take these things we've been fortunate enough to be handed (along with the misfortunes and difficulties we've endured) and use those to promote a fairer, more just world for those who come after us. We can sit here and argue if this messenger is the ideal messenger. Which is odd, because in many other fields we view past mistakes as a teaching opportunity. Ultimately, the people in power should cede and share some of that good fortune and cultural windfall to create a more equal world rather than waiting for history to repeat itself with violent uprisings. History suggests that such uprisings are not kind to even bystanders. > Why can't all this under-utilized talent create a tech company dominated by blacks and women? Why not create a Meyerhoff like program to prove your hypothesis ... Because creating an environment that mimics the societal advantages white men get in the US and most of the western world is infeasibly expensive. I mean, seriously. How would you even? You'd have to raise kids from birth in a theme park with meticulous care to shield them from the deleterious effects of racism and sexism. > rather than ask me to subscribe to the latest social engineering fad? Progressivism isn't a fad. It's the consistent direction of society since the dark ages.

jdp23 11y ago
Well said.
striking 11y ago
Something something just-world fallacy. http://www.spring.org.uk/2012/06/the-belief-in-a-just-world-a-fundamental-delusion.php http://www.spring.org.uk/2012/06/the-belief-in-a-just-world-... > expensive With the millions of dollars from diversity initiatives, I'm sure someone could pull it off. Also, I think you're missing the entire "classism" thing. I'm Polish, and just because I'm white doesn't mean I have the world handed to me. Kind of the opposite actually, everything that I've ever gotten in life was thanks to fighting the system (whether it was my work or my parents' work). I could say I deserve something, but honestly I don't really think I do. The world is not a fair place.
- millermp12 11y ago
  That's strange. With all those polish jokes going around, I figured poles would be a belligerent and resentful underclass. Strange how that works. Same with asians. Or is yellow the new white?
- KirinDave 11y ago
  The world IS fundamentally unfair. That doesn't mean that society should foster fundamentally unfair policies. I don't know why you would think that this would be wise, or after even a casual perusal of history you'd think it was novel or sustainable. > Also, I think you're missing the entire "classism" thing. I'm Polish, and just because I'm white doesn't mean I have the world handed to me. Kind of the opposite actually, everything that I've ever gotten in life was thanks to fighting the system (whether it was my work or my parents' work). It simply wasn't the subject of this conversation. "White privilege" is a specific set of special treatments you get in the US. It is not, "Magically you have a perfect life." It's undeniable that with white privilege you're less likely to be summarily executed by law enforcement, as an example. But economic and other social divides still exist. Polish and Irish people are excellent examples of other axis of discrimination and racism that still exist in the world today. > I could say I deserve something, but honestly I don't really think I do. We're all raised to accept racism as normal. It's not surprising that you feel this way. But remember, you're not the one who's history is getting them shot in the street in the US right now, so you're probably going to feel slightly less personal pain and be asked to express slightly more empathy at this exact moment.