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For projects backed before Oct 19 2014: https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012 https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012 Under "Projects: Fund

by pmh 11y ago

For projects backed before Oct 19 2014: https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012 https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012 Under "Projects: Fundraising and Commerce": "Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill."

Qualman 11y ago
> By backing a fundraising campaign on Kickstarter, you as the Backer accept that offer and the contract between Backer and Project Creator is formed. Kickstarter is not a party to that agreement between the Backer and Project Creator. All dealings are solely between Users. I'm not convinced. The section you referenced pertains to the backing rewards only. They are, and always seem to have been, very hands-off about the delivery of the project.
- potatolicious 11y ago
  The project itself is almost always also the reward. e.g., "$50 tier, get a copy of the game" Unless none of the reward tiers involve the project itself, and are all things like t-shirts and stickers...
  - Ded7xSEoPKYNsDd 11y ago
    I disagree. "5$ donation, get nothing" wouldn't require a refund. The project purpose is to make a game. That's separate from the reward tier "get a copy of the game". So if the project fails, the backers who bought a copy of said game need to get a refund.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  This is some interesting wording. How can a third party enter separate parties into a contract? Do projects really setup their own contracts with their funders?
  - codingdave 11y ago
    Contracts fall under civil law. There is no statutory definition of what constitutes offers and acceptance. So in this case, were I a lawyer, I'd argue that the TOS is a legal contract, and by using the site, you have implicitly agreed to the definition of contract acceptance specified in the TOS. Whether it holds up in court is a different question, but this lawsuit at least gave a precedent.
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      Do you have any examples of implicit acceptance of arbitrary contracts merely through accessing a network resource?
      - codingdave 11y ago
        Of course not - The contract would be made when money was exchanged, not when the site was accessed.
        jsprogrammer 11y ago
        Sure, but the money is exchanged between kickstarter and the participants (backers and makers). The participants don't exchange directly with each other.
        codingdave 11y ago
        Yup, that is a likely counter argument to be made in court if anyone ever sues over these issues. As I said, though, this is civil law, so it would come down to how lawyers argue it and what judges think. In civil cases, answers are rarely black and white.

by pmh 11y ago

Qualman 11y ago

> By backing a fundraising campaign on Kickstarter, you as the Backer accept that offer and the contract between Backer and Project Creator is formed. Kickstarter is not a party to that agreement between the Backer and Project Creator. All dealings are solely between Users. I'm not convinced. The section you referenced pertains to the backing rewards only. They are, and always seem to have been, very hands-off about the delivery of the project.

potatolicious 11y ago
The project itself is almost always also the reward. e.g., "$50 tier, get a copy of the game" Unless none of the reward tiers involve the project itself, and are all things like t-shirts and stickers...
- Ded7xSEoPKYNsDd 11y ago
  I disagree. "5$ donation, get nothing" wouldn't require a refund. The project purpose is to make a game. That's separate from the reward tier "get a copy of the game". So if the project fails, the backers who bought a copy of said game need to get a refund.
jsprogrammer 11y ago
This is some interesting wording. How can a third party enter separate parties into a contract? Do projects really setup their own contracts with their funders?
- codingdave 11y ago
  Contracts fall under civil law. There is no statutory definition of what constitutes offers and acceptance. So in this case, were I a lawyer, I'd argue that the TOS is a legal contract, and by using the site, you have implicitly agreed to the definition of contract acceptance specified in the TOS. Whether it holds up in court is a different question, but this lawsuit at least gave a precedent.
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    Do you have any examples of implicit acceptance of arbitrary contracts merely through accessing a network resource?
    - codingdave 11y ago
      Of course not - The contract would be made when money was exchanged, not when the site was accessed.
      - jsprogrammer 11y ago
        Sure, but the money is exchanged between kickstarter and the participants (backers and makers). The participants don't exchange directly with each other.
        codingdave 11y ago
        Yup, that is a likely counter argument to be made in court if anyone ever sues over these issues. As I said, though, this is civil law, so it would come down to how lawyers argue it and what judges think. In civil cases, answers are rarely black and white.