5 ms·

The Indie Bubble Revisited (Are We All Totally-Doomed, or Just Regular-Doomed?)

66 points by ivank 11y ago

tunesmith 11y ago
A lot of this parallels indie musicians, too, except I'm not sure there ever was that spike where an indie musician could release an average album online and make a bunch of money.
fallingfrog 11y ago
Well, that sucks.. I guess I'll wait a couple years and see if things thin out a bit before trying to make a game. There are some real quality titles out there anyway. Maybe I'll just play one instead.
- thirdtruck 11y ago
  That's the classic mistake! Make the game now, but at a sustainable pace, and then release it after things improve. If you wait until things look good again, then you've already missed the chance to get in on the new ground floor.
  - hartator 11y ago
    I think he was sacarstic.
    - mettamage 11y ago
      I think so too. Nevertheless, the comment inspired me and cheered me up :)
      - thirdtruck 11y ago
        Thanks! I'm being sincere, at least.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
ap22213 11y ago
I used to be a frequent buyer of indie games on steam. But, my buying habits have changed significantly recently. A while ago, interestingly around the same time that the chart's lines started to plummet, I stopped buying indie games. Why? Because too many of them were uninteresting. And, because I'd been burned by buying highly rated or highly popular titles, only to be disappointed. I think part of the problem is that the review system is all screwed up. I'm sure that there are a lot of games that I'd love to play. I just don't know how to find them. In the good old days, there were respectable publications where reviews were detailed and relatively accurate. I don't know what the replacement is.
- sdenton4 11y ago
  The replacement? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AVJD_GzID0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AVJD_GzID0
  - generic_user 11y ago
    You can find a good list of game news websites that have been vetted by gamers and a list of who the rotten apples are at Deep Freeze. http://www.deepfreeze.it/ http://www.deepfreeze.it/
- makomk 11y ago
  Part of the problem is that there are just too many games. I often come across potentially interesting games that have one or two reviews from third-tier sites, or even no reviews at all, because reviewers simply cannot test all the games coming out. Unless you have connections or a good hook to bait sites in with, I guess you're not getting reviewed - and of course, the things that make a game interesting to the press don't necessarily make for a good game.
NDizzle 11y ago
I blame the trend of early access releases. I got burned by a few kickstarters early on. I'm never giving anyone money for a game that I can't play until the future. This means pre-ordering AAA titles as well. What's the point in pre-ordering if I don't buy a physical copy? The pre-order bonus stuff is way out of control. Now, there may be some good indie games on Steam, somewhere, but to me it's buried under the pile of of greenlit / alpha / early access crapware.
- hartror 11y ago
  I've abandoned greenlight/preorder as well. Especially frustrating with greenlight is when friends play to death an unfinished game (normally some sandbox style thing) and get bored of it well before it is done. Then once it is done no one interested in it anymore having moved on to the next unfinished game. Terraria, Space Engineers, Star Forge, Rust and other have all burnt me in this manner. Rock Paper Shotgun agree on the pre-order front. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/18/editorial-lets-not-pre-order-games-any-more-eh/ http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/18/editorial-lets-no...
  - kazagistar 11y ago
    My current strategy is to buy the games I am interested in, but not play them til they are 1.0, and I encourage my friends to wait to play as well. I have been waiting for Starbound to be released, for example, but I haven't touched it yet.
generic_user 11y ago
This situation is entirely the fault of "Game Journalism" which spent a good two or three years showering praise on the magical "Indy Developers" who are in large part a narrative invention to fill page real estate and promote there friends crappy projects. There was a string of highly celebrated indy games that were truly garbage and people quickly came to the conclusion that there was collusion between the "Game Journalists" and the "Indy Developers". Once people started to research these connections in many cases it turned out that the developers were close friends of the journalists or even involved in relationships. GamerGate was the start of the process of publicly connecting the dots and showing the collusion between these shady characters. The response was a massive coordinated attack and smear campaign on "Gamers" by the very people who were being outed. The war rages on to this day and probably will for years to come. There never was a large number of high quality Indy Games. Game journalists did a huge amount of damage by promoting garbage and then attacking the very consumers who they were claiming to be catering to. To most gamers these Journalists have lost all credibility. you can find out more about who these "Game Journalist" are at Deep Freeze. http://www.deepfreeze.it/ http://www.deepfreeze.it/
rasz_pl 11y ago
Its not the indie part, its the games themselves. They are mostly either BAD, or very niche. It blows my mind that some people think there is a vast market for 1990 style platformers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4F-zdpFb9I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4F-zdpFb9I
- generic_user 11y ago
  And they keep talking these turkeys up in Game Press like amazing wonderful games that you just have to buy, 10 star reviews etc. People got burned putting down there hard earned money for garbage walking simulators with crappy art. Most people I know who might buy 10$ Indy games are much more sceptical and careful with there money now. No one believes the reviews any more, either go to Youtube or word of mouth by someone you trust there taste. A few select sites give credible reviews but there rare.
- ahoge 11y ago
  I bought several indie platformers. Super Meat Boy, Braid, Noitu Love 2, and a few others. I also bought Deadlight. I think there is a fairly huge market for platformers. However, it's certainly a very crowded one. There are over 500 platformers on Steam. Want to make one with pixel graphics? There are already 97 of those.
- thenomad 11y ago
  What genre would you suggest an indie developer would be best advised to work in, out of interest?
  - babuskov 11y ago
    I though it might be hard puzzle games, so I built this: http://store.steampowered.com/app/363670 http://store.steampowered.com/app/363670 But it does not sell very well. So puzzles are off too. As an indie, you cannot really compete with FPS or MOBA genre. Someone might suggest RTS, but RTS is replaced with MOBAs. The only genre I see lacking and what would be easier to sell on Steam are RPGs. But those take a lot of time and effort to build. If you work alone, it's hard to justify 2-3 years of development before making any money. I'm currently considering what will be my next game. Perhaps a 4x game that would have a vast and complex world that lives on its own.
Kiro 11y ago
As usual the definition of success is blurry. If I can make a single dollar on my game I consider it a success but I'm not in it for the money.
zinxq 11y ago
This is a commoditization problem. Games became very easy to write. Go-to market became very easy to do with game selling platforms (i.e. appstore, steam). Match that with most "game players" would love to be "game developers" - and you get a flood of games of varying quality. Now it's (sadly) less about making a great game and far more about screaming above the noise.

66 points by ivank 11y ago

A lot of this parallels indie musicians, too, except I'm not sure there ever was that spike where an indie musician could release an average album online and make a bunch of money.

fallingfrog 11y ago

Well, that sucks.. I guess I'll wait a couple years and see if things thin out a bit before trying to make a game. There are some real quality titles out there anyway. Maybe I'll just play one instead.

thirdtruck 11y ago
That's the classic mistake! Make the game now, but at a sustainable pace, and then release it after things improve. If you wait until things look good again, then you've already missed the chance to get in on the new ground floor.
- hartator 11y ago
  I think he was sacarstic.
  - mettamage 11y ago
    I think so too. Nevertheless, the comment inspired me and cheered me up :)
    - thirdtruck 11y ago
      Thanks! I'm being sincere, at least.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]

ap22213 11y ago

I used to be a frequent buyer of indie games on steam. But, my buying habits have changed significantly recently. A while ago, interestingly around the same time that the chart's lines started to plummet, I stopped buying indie games. Why? Because too many of them were uninteresting. And, because I'd been burned by buying highly rated or highly popular titles, only to be disappointed. I think part of the problem is that the review system is all screwed up. I'm sure that there are a lot of games that I'd love to play. I just don't know how to find them. In the good old days, there were respectable publications where reviews were detailed and relatively accurate. I don't know what the replacement is.

sdenton4 11y ago
The replacement? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AVJD_GzID0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AVJD_GzID0
- generic_user 11y ago
  You can find a good list of game news websites that have been vetted by gamers and a list of who the rotten apples are at Deep Freeze. http://www.deepfreeze.it/ http://www.deepfreeze.it/
makomk 11y ago
Part of the problem is that there are just too many games. I often come across potentially interesting games that have one or two reviews from third-tier sites, or even no reviews at all, because reviewers simply cannot test all the games coming out. Unless you have connections or a good hook to bait sites in with, I guess you're not getting reviewed - and of course, the things that make a game interesting to the press don't necessarily make for a good game.

NDizzle 11y ago

I blame the trend of early access releases. I got burned by a few kickstarters early on. I'm never giving anyone money for a game that I can't play until the future. This means pre-ordering AAA titles as well. What's the point in pre-ordering if I don't buy a physical copy? The pre-order bonus stuff is way out of control. Now, there may be some good indie games on Steam, somewhere, but to me it's buried under the pile of of greenlit / alpha / early access crapware.

hartror 11y ago
I've abandoned greenlight/preorder as well. Especially frustrating with greenlight is when friends play to death an unfinished game (normally some sandbox style thing) and get bored of it well before it is done. Then once it is done no one interested in it anymore having moved on to the next unfinished game. Terraria, Space Engineers, Star Forge, Rust and other have all burnt me in this manner. Rock Paper Shotgun agree on the pre-order front. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/18/editorial-lets-not-pre-order-games-any-more-eh/ http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/18/editorial-lets-no...
- kazagistar 11y ago
  My current strategy is to buy the games I am interested in, but not play them til they are 1.0, and I encourage my friends to wait to play as well. I have been waiting for Starbound to be released, for example, but I haven't touched it yet.

generic_user 11y ago

This situation is entirely the fault of "Game Journalism" which spent a good two or three years showering praise on the magical "Indy Developers" who are in large part a narrative invention to fill page real estate and promote there friends crappy projects. There was a string of highly celebrated indy games that were truly garbage and people quickly came to the conclusion that there was collusion between the "Game Journalists" and the "Indy Developers". Once people started to research these connections in many cases it turned out that the developers were close friends of the journalists or even involved in relationships. GamerGate was the start of the process of publicly connecting the dots and showing the collusion between these shady characters. The response was a massive coordinated attack and smear campaign on "Gamers" by the very people who were being outed. The war rages on to this day and probably will for years to come. There never was a large number of high quality Indy Games. Game journalists did a huge amount of damage by promoting garbage and then attacking the very consumers who they were claiming to be catering to. To most gamers these Journalists have lost all credibility. you can find out more about who these "Game Journalist" are at Deep Freeze. http://www.deepfreeze.it/ http://www.deepfreeze.it/

rasz_pl 11y ago

Its not the indie part, its the games themselves. They are mostly either BAD, or very niche. It blows my mind that some people think there is a vast market for 1990 style platformers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4F-zdpFb9I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4F-zdpFb9I

generic_user 11y ago
And they keep talking these turkeys up in Game Press like amazing wonderful games that you just have to buy, 10 star reviews etc. People got burned putting down there hard earned money for garbage walking simulators with crappy art. Most people I know who might buy 10$ Indy games are much more sceptical and careful with there money now. No one believes the reviews any more, either go to Youtube or word of mouth by someone you trust there taste. A few select sites give credible reviews but there rare.
ahoge 11y ago
I bought several indie platformers. Super Meat Boy, Braid, Noitu Love 2, and a few others. I also bought Deadlight. I think there is a fairly huge market for platformers. However, it's certainly a very crowded one. There are over 500 platformers on Steam. Want to make one with pixel graphics? There are already 97 of those.
thenomad 11y ago
What genre would you suggest an indie developer would be best advised to work in, out of interest?
- babuskov 11y ago
  I though it might be hard puzzle games, so I built this: http://store.steampowered.com/app/363670 http://store.steampowered.com/app/363670 But it does not sell very well. So puzzles are off too. As an indie, you cannot really compete with FPS or MOBA genre. Someone might suggest RTS, but RTS is replaced with MOBAs. The only genre I see lacking and what would be easier to sell on Steam are RPGs. But those take a lot of time and effort to build. If you work alone, it's hard to justify 2-3 years of development before making any money. I'm currently considering what will be my next game. Perhaps a 4x game that would have a vast and complex world that lives on its own.

Kiro 11y ago

As usual the definition of success is blurry. If I can make a single dollar on my game I consider it a success but I'm not in it for the money.

zinxq 11y ago

This is a commoditization problem. Games became very easy to write. Go-to market became very easy to do with game selling platforms (i.e. appstore, steam). Match that with most "game players" would love to be "game developers" - and you get a flood of games of varying quality. Now it's (sadly) less about making a great game and far more about screaming above the noise.