5 ms·

The Cold War nuke that fried satellites

35 points by Audiophilip 11y ago

stephengillie 11y ago
> British government documents detailing the fate of the satellite remained locked away for 50 years. Reading through a copy of the file stamped ‘secret’ in red letters today, it is clear why: Nasa realised almost immediately what had happened to the satellite but the UK was, embarrassingly, kept in the dark. Another example of Classification used to censor something that poses no security risk, but holds huge reputation risk.
- dx211 11y ago
  You say that, but now that this is out it's only a matter of time before the bad guys realize they can stop using their nukes for leveling cities and repurpose them for disrupting HBO.
  - Finster 11y ago
    Except not, because satellites are now hardened against this kind of radiation as a side effect of hardening against cosmic rays, etc. source: the article
  - sandworm101 11y ago
    The sats for HBO are geostationary. Hitting them with nukes is a far cry from disrupting those in low orbits. You would need a much bigger rocket and significantly better aim (GST=35000km vs. LEO=150km).
- sandworm101 11y ago
  I don't think it was kept secret to diminish embarrassment or save face. The impact on satellites was an outcome of the test. It was part of the weapon's overall effectiveness. How well your weapons work on specific targets, even those outside the test area, is exactly the type of information you try to keep out of enemy hands.
  - stephengillie 11y ago
    But the UK and US have been allies for a very long time...
    - sandworm101 11y ago
      They didn't trust each other, with good reason. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Spy_Ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Spy_Ring
smileysteve 11y ago
Is this the real life event that led to Goldeneye?
- sergiotapia 11y ago
  For England, James?
  - doctorshady 11y ago
    No - for me.
krylon 11y ago
If I recall correctly, there were a couple of people (I don't remember if they were astronauts or cosmonauts) in orbit at the time of Starfish Prime, whose space capsule passed through the radiation belt on its orbit. The space agency in question was pretty nervous about them getting fried as well, and was kind of upset they weren't informed ahead of time.
- sandworm101 11y ago
  I doubt it. The vanallen belts were predicted long ahead of time and were confirmed during the very first sat missions (explorer 1). They were known not to be dangerous, at least not in comparison to riding a rocket. The amount of dangerous radiation penetrating any spacecraft would be minimal in comparison to that constantly funneled into the belt from space. The vanallen belts are often mentioned by moon hoax people to suggest that manned spaceflight is impossible. Mr Van Allan has been interviewed several times to dispute this assertion.
  - krylon 11y ago
    As far as I understand the issue, the Van Allen belts themselves were not the problem, but the high energy electrons released by the thermonuclear explosion, which got caught in the belt. (Apparently the amount of high energy particles released during a solar mass ejection far exceeds that released by any of the nuclear weapons set off during Operation Fishbowl, but I guess people knew a lot less about SMEs back then.) The only reference I can find right now is the Wikipedia article on "High altitude nuclear explosion", which says: "The radiation dose rate was at least 60 rads/day at four months after Starfish for a well-shielded satellite or manned capsule in a polar circular earth orbit, which caused NASA concern with regard to its manned space exploration programs." Which sounds quite a bit less dramatic than I remembered.
- pvg 11y ago
  I don't think there were any. Starfish Prime was on July 9th, 1962, with Mercury-Atlas 7 launching on May 24, 1962 and lasting 4 hours followed by Vostok 3 launching August 11th, same year. Take a look at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_spaceflights#Detailed_lists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_spaceflights#Det...
jawbone3 11y ago
Many good reasons for protect space from weaponization by treaty, too bad the article doesn't raise this issue better.

35 points by Audiophilip 11y ago

> British government documents detailing the fate of the satellite remained locked away for 50 years. Reading through a copy of the file stamped ‘secret’ in red letters today, it is clear why: Nasa realised almost immediately what had happened to the satellite but the UK was, embarrassingly, kept in the dark. Another example of Classification used to censor something that poses no security risk, but holds huge reputation risk.

dx211 11y ago
You say that, but now that this is out it's only a matter of time before the bad guys realize they can stop using their nukes for leveling cities and repurpose them for disrupting HBO.
- Finster 11y ago
  Except not, because satellites are now hardened against this kind of radiation as a side effect of hardening against cosmic rays, etc. source: the article
- sandworm101 11y ago
  The sats for HBO are geostationary. Hitting them with nukes is a far cry from disrupting those in low orbits. You would need a much bigger rocket and significantly better aim (GST=35000km vs. LEO=150km).
sandworm101 11y ago
I don't think it was kept secret to diminish embarrassment or save face. The impact on satellites was an outcome of the test. It was part of the weapon's overall effectiveness. How well your weapons work on specific targets, even those outside the test area, is exactly the type of information you try to keep out of enemy hands.
- stephengillie 11y ago
  But the UK and US have been allies for a very long time...
  - sandworm101 11y ago
    They didn't trust each other, with good reason. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Spy_Ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Spy_Ring

smileysteve 11y ago

Is this the real life event that led to Goldeneye?

sergiotapia 11y ago
For England, James?
- doctorshady 11y ago
  No - for me.

krylon 11y ago

If I recall correctly, there were a couple of people (I don't remember if they were astronauts or cosmonauts) in orbit at the time of Starfish Prime, whose space capsule passed through the radiation belt on its orbit. The space agency in question was pretty nervous about them getting fried as well, and was kind of upset they weren't informed ahead of time.

sandworm101 11y ago
I doubt it. The vanallen belts were predicted long ahead of time and were confirmed during the very first sat missions (explorer 1). They were known not to be dangerous, at least not in comparison to riding a rocket. The amount of dangerous radiation penetrating any spacecraft would be minimal in comparison to that constantly funneled into the belt from space. The vanallen belts are often mentioned by moon hoax people to suggest that manned spaceflight is impossible. Mr Van Allan has been interviewed several times to dispute this assertion.
- krylon 11y ago
  As far as I understand the issue, the Van Allen belts themselves were not the problem, but the high energy electrons released by the thermonuclear explosion, which got caught in the belt. (Apparently the amount of high energy particles released during a solar mass ejection far exceeds that released by any of the nuclear weapons set off during Operation Fishbowl, but I guess people knew a lot less about SMEs back then.) The only reference I can find right now is the Wikipedia article on "High altitude nuclear explosion", which says: "The radiation dose rate was at least 60 rads/day at four months after Starfish for a well-shielded satellite or manned capsule in a polar circular earth orbit, which caused NASA concern with regard to its manned space exploration programs." Which sounds quite a bit less dramatic than I remembered.
pvg 11y ago
I don't think there were any. Starfish Prime was on July 9th, 1962, with Mercury-Atlas 7 launching on May 24, 1962 and lasting 4 hours followed by Vostok 3 launching August 11th, same year. Take a look at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_spaceflights#Detailed_lists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_spaceflights#Det...

jawbone3 11y ago

Many good reasons for protect space from weaponization by treaty, too bad the article doesn't raise this issue better.