4 ms·

It's called n-key rollover. Yes, many companies make absolute crap for keyboards, and yet people actually make fun of me at work for buying a 250$ keyboard. W

by devin 17y ago

It's called n-key rollover. Yes, many companies make absolute crap for keyboards, and yet people actually make fun of me at work for buying a 250$ keyboard. Would they ever suggest 250$ is too much to spend on, say, a bed? I doubt it. elitekeyboards.com <-- the best keyboards money can buy. n-key rollover, topre capacitive switches, etc. geekhack.org is a great reference.

city41 17y ago
How do these compare to the current gen of Mac keyboards, response and feel wise? The current gen Mac keyboard is my all time favorite, all my computers have them.
- GeoJawDguJin 17y ago
  Currently, Apple only makes membrane keyboards. Even as membrane keyboards go, the best I can say about them (subjectively) is that they're not quite as awful as most of the competition. A better comparison would be with old (early 90s) ADB models, such as the Apple Extended Keyboard II.
eru 17y ago
> elitekeyboards.com They look like ordinary bad keyboards. I prefer the Kinesis contoured (http://images.google.com/images?q=kinesis%20contoured http://images.google.com/images?q=kinesis%20contoured).
- rit 17y ago
  > They look like ordinary bad keyboards. They aren't (in my opinion, and by basis of the construction thereof). The keyboards they carry are japanese imports most of which use Cherry switches. They also, unlike the Das Keyboard, have well built controllers. Pricey, but worth it. I adore the Majestouch Click Otakus that I got from Elitekeyboards. Contoured keyboards are in some cases an acquired taste, in others unusable. I have an old hand injury that makes it tough for me to use something like the Kinesis which puts my hands in awkward positions. I've been forced to find decent standard keyboards, which have consistent keystrikes [which a membrane won't provide]. For what it's worth, I find this article to be a good read on what the deal is with quality keyboard switches, including Cherry and Alp clones: http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/09/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/09/mech... There's another article and I believe it was on my bookmarks at the last job and I didn't copy it over, but if I find it i'll add it in. EDIT: Keep in mind also good switches only take you so far - the problems the Das Keyboards [which use Cherry switches] have had is poor controllers. BUT, even with a good controller, my understanding is USB has a limitation on N-Key rollover to a low number of simultaneous key presses. Most of the quality keyboards come with PS2 adapters and recommend using PS2 if you want full bandwidth. ANOTHER EDIT: This I believe is the "other" guide I was thinking of. It gives an overview of several "mechanical" keyboards which may be useful for those looking for an alternative to the $20 freebie their computer came with: http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/491752-mechanical-keyboard-guide.html http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/491752-mechani... ... Personally, since I've started using mechanicals I've had most of the end-of-day wrist pain I used to experience disappear.
- petewarden 17y ago
  I have been using Kinesis keyboards for years, the foot-switches for alt/control/shift have been a god-send for my RSI. I've had some with terrible build quality though, I've never had a keyboard last more than a year, and I've frequently had to open them up to fix loose wires.
nollidge 17y ago
Can you say more about what problem those $250 keyboards are solving? I guess I never find myself with issues where keys don't register or anything like that, even with a $15 crapola one. (Wireless ones, however, are a different story.)
- vito 17y ago
  At least with my Topre Realforce 87U there are definitely some perks to justify it: * The feel of the mechanical keys is fantastic. There's much more feedback; keystrokes make a nice subdued "schlock" noise. The backspace key sounds like the sound from Mario games where he does that spinning landing thing on a baddie. * Easily swappable keys; my WASD are swapped for the purple arrow keys they come with, and my Esc key is a nice dangerous-looking red. * LEDs are built into the keys they're for. Not a killer feature, but pretty slick. * Flexibility; there are dip switches in the back for various tweaks such as swapping Ctrl and Caps Lock on a hardware level - they even provide keys to switch out so that the new Caps Lock key gets its LED. For something I'll be typing on for many hours a day it's a worthy investment.
  - nollidge 17y ago
    Those all sound like neat aesthetic benefits, but the OP made it sound like there's something objectively wrong or buggy with less-expensive keyboards.
    - vito 17y ago
      It's largely subjective; the feedback of mechanical vs. membrane keyboards can certainly be measured objectively (i.e. pressure for key presses and snapback time), but it's just a matter of personal preference between the two (and I wouldn't consider the better feedback to be just a neat aesthetic benefit; it's the reason I bought it, not a bonus). My dad has always used an old clacky mechanical IBM keyboard but has no problem using membrane keyboards. I can use a membrane keyboard if I have to, but now it feels "mushy" after being spoiled by my Topre. Membrane keyboards are cheaper to make (because most people don't care) but have less tactile feedback and are less reliable. Mechanical keyboards are more expensive to make, but are much more durable (keys will not wear out) and have quicker key snapback. Lack of n-key rollover could also be considered a defect of inexpensive keyboards, although it's not a common hindrance to casual typers. More information: http://www.ergocanada.com/ergo/keyboards/mechanical_vs_membrane_keyswitches.html http://www.ergocanada.com/ergo/keyboards/mechanical_vs_membr...

by devin 17y ago

city41 17y ago

How do these compare to the current gen of Mac keyboards, response and feel wise? The current gen Mac keyboard is my all time favorite, all my computers have them.

GeoJawDguJin 17y ago
Currently, Apple only makes membrane keyboards. Even as membrane keyboards go, the best I can say about them (subjectively) is that they're not quite as awful as most of the competition. A better comparison would be with old (early 90s) ADB models, such as the Apple Extended Keyboard II.

eru 17y ago

> elitekeyboards.com They look like ordinary bad keyboards. I prefer the Kinesis contoured (http://images.google.com/images?q=kinesis%20contoured http://images.google.com/images?q=kinesis%20contoured).

rit 17y ago
> They look like ordinary bad keyboards. They aren't (in my opinion, and by basis of the construction thereof). The keyboards they carry are japanese imports most of which use Cherry switches. They also, unlike the Das Keyboard, have well built controllers. Pricey, but worth it. I adore the Majestouch Click Otakus that I got from Elitekeyboards. Contoured keyboards are in some cases an acquired taste, in others unusable. I have an old hand injury that makes it tough for me to use something like the Kinesis which puts my hands in awkward positions. I've been forced to find decent standard keyboards, which have consistent keystrikes [which a membrane won't provide]. For what it's worth, I find this article to be a good read on what the deal is with quality keyboard switches, including Cherry and Alp clones: http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/09/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/09/mech... There's another article and I believe it was on my bookmarks at the last job and I didn't copy it over, but if I find it i'll add it in. EDIT: Keep in mind also good switches only take you so far - the problems the Das Keyboards [which use Cherry switches] have had is poor controllers. BUT, even with a good controller, my understanding is USB has a limitation on N-Key rollover to a low number of simultaneous key presses. Most of the quality keyboards come with PS2 adapters and recommend using PS2 if you want full bandwidth. ANOTHER EDIT: This I believe is the "other" guide I was thinking of. It gives an overview of several "mechanical" keyboards which may be useful for those looking for an alternative to the $20 freebie their computer came with: http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/491752-mechanical-keyboard-guide.html http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/491752-mechani... ... Personally, since I've started using mechanicals I've had most of the end-of-day wrist pain I used to experience disappear.
petewarden 17y ago
I have been using Kinesis keyboards for years, the foot-switches for alt/control/shift have been a god-send for my RSI. I've had some with terrible build quality though, I've never had a keyboard last more than a year, and I've frequently had to open them up to fix loose wires.

nollidge 17y ago

Can you say more about what problem those $250 keyboards are solving? I guess I never find myself with issues where keys don't register or anything like that, even with a $15 crapola one. (Wireless ones, however, are a different story.)

vito 17y ago
At least with my Topre Realforce 87U there are definitely some perks to justify it: * The feel of the mechanical keys is fantastic. There's much more feedback; keystrokes make a nice subdued "schlock" noise. The backspace key sounds like the sound from Mario games where he does that spinning landing thing on a baddie. * Easily swappable keys; my WASD are swapped for the purple arrow keys they come with, and my Esc key is a nice dangerous-looking red. * LEDs are built into the keys they're for. Not a killer feature, but pretty slick. * Flexibility; there are dip switches in the back for various tweaks such as swapping Ctrl and Caps Lock on a hardware level - they even provide keys to switch out so that the new Caps Lock key gets its LED. For something I'll be typing on for many hours a day it's a worthy investment.
- nollidge 17y ago
  Those all sound like neat aesthetic benefits, but the OP made it sound like there's something objectively wrong or buggy with less-expensive keyboards.
  - vito 17y ago
    It's largely subjective; the feedback of mechanical vs. membrane keyboards can certainly be measured objectively (i.e. pressure for key presses and snapback time), but it's just a matter of personal preference between the two (and I wouldn't consider the better feedback to be just a neat aesthetic benefit; it's the reason I bought it, not a bonus). My dad has always used an old clacky mechanical IBM keyboard but has no problem using membrane keyboards. I can use a membrane keyboard if I have to, but now it feels "mushy" after being spoiled by my Topre. Membrane keyboards are cheaper to make (because most people don't care) but have less tactile feedback and are less reliable. Mechanical keyboards are more expensive to make, but are much more durable (keys will not wear out) and have quicker key snapback. Lack of n-key rollover could also be considered a defect of inexpensive keyboards, although it's not a common hindrance to casual typers. More information: http://www.ergocanada.com/ergo/keyboards/mechanical_vs_membrane_keyswitches.html http://www.ergocanada.com/ergo/keyboards/mechanical_vs_membr...