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Reddit would be a better place for comments like this. HN is for reasonable discussion

by seibelj 11y ago

samstave 11y ago
Jesus Christ I'm tired If this, get off your high horse and have the guts to have "a reasonable discussion" on a topic that doesn't fit within your comfort zone. You are a coward for posting your snide comment on an attempt to look intellectually superior. The state of the police in the US is a disease... Defend that if you're so inclined. Your snipey comment to try to quell discourse is abhorrent, and shows you're incapable of actually talking about the issue.
- seibelj 11y ago
  The comment you responded to was about the utility of quickly filing missing persons reports. Your response said that people with dementia filed as missing would be lucky to survive an encounter with a police officer. It seems like you have an axe to grind that is completely irrelevant to the topic of discussion. I don't know your political inclinations but your arguments are illogical and confusing. I said it would be better for reddit, because comments like yours are common there, while fairly uncommon on HN
  - MrJagil 11y ago
    I would say that your stab at reddit was just as meaningless as his initial comment. Why didn't you post what you just posted in the first place? If you really want to help keep HN clean, avoid the snide one-liners. Either leave it at a down-vote or post a proper reply.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    > Your response said that people with dementia filed as missing would be lucky to survive an encounter with a police officer. Relatives often call the police when someone with a mental health problem is in distress or has gone for a walk or whatever. We don't know how many encounters with police end happily. We do know that Many of the encounters that end with a loved one being shot started when a relative called the police. (Obviously this is in the US. Other countries have plenty of police involvement with mentally ill people, who are sometimes armed with similar weapons to the US cases, that don't end with the ill person being killed.) I agree with you about how that point is being made.
- mirimir 11y ago
  You posted an ad hominem attack on police in America. That doesn't even belong on reddit, although it's more common there. That said, police in America are stuck dealing with the consequences of many short-sighted policy decisions. They are not properly trained for social work, mental health services, and so on.
  - aquateen 11y ago
    http://laurencetennant.com/bonds/adhominem.html http://laurencetennant.com/bonds/adhominem.html
    - bbcbasic 11y ago
      HN Rule 1 - he/she who Latins first ... wins the argument. Game over.
      - mirimir 11y ago
        De gustibus non disputandem ;) But what about Sanskrit?
  - rev_bird 11y ago
    > They are not properly trained for social work, mental health services, and so on. Seems like another one of those short-sighted policy decisions here...
    - morganvachon 11y ago
      Actually many agencies have begun training their officers to properly recognize and approach mentally/emotionally unstable people to offer them assistance, without resorting to use of force. The academy in my area calls it Crisis Intervention Training, and it is a required course for agencies who train at that facility, which is most of northwest Georgia.
  - ithought 11y ago
    How is that an ad hominem attack? Most cops aren't properly trained to shoot a gun. Some have 1 training session per year and they have to hit 70% on a target 3 yards away. Most don't seem to know how to react in a confrontation or high-stress situation. The system is flawed but people have personal responsibility too. You can't absolve someone of criminal acts by saying oh it's someone else's fault.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
linkydinkandyou 11y ago
Or Quora! They're all about knee-jerk cop-hate!
DanBC 11y ago
half of the people shot and killed by police are vulnerable people with a mental illness. It's a reasonable point made in an unhelpful inflammatory way. In 30th June 2015 WP had this article (reporting that about a quarter of the people shot and killed by US police that year had a mental illness. The police had often been called out by relatives who wanted help, but who didn't want their loved one shot and killed). Here's a grauniad report that talks about the differing news coverage of US shootings of dogs (lots of coverage) and mentally ill people (local news). I'm not sure that bit is accurate: plenty of dogs are killed by US police with little media mention. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/03/idaho-police-shootings-jeanetta-riley-justice-for-arfee http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/03/idaho-police-... That report talks about the total number of people shot and killed by US police, and about the amount of them who had mental illness, and links to this 2013 PDF that says about 1,000 people are shot and killed by US police each year, and that about half of them have a mental illness. (Scarily the US doesn't collect statistics about this! That's, I think, telling.) http://tacreports.org/storage/documents/2013-justifiable-homicides.pdf http://tacreports.org/storage/documents/2013-justifiable-hom... > Although no national data is collected, multiple informal studies and accounts support the conclusion that “at least half of the people shot and killed by police each year in this country have mental health problems.”
- happyscrappy 11y ago
  Suicide by cop is a thing and if you aggressively go after officers it is safe to say you may have a mental illness.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Suicide by cop is a thing ... in the US. People aggressively go after cops in other countries and don't get shot. It's poor training and low skills that cause US police to kill so many people.
    - at-fates-hands 11y ago
      >> It's poor training and low skills that cause US police to kill so many people. This is a total over generalization. Mainly because the numbers of people shot by police do not include the context of the shooting. Questions like: - Did the person charge at a police officer? - Did the person brandish a weapon like a knife or gun and threaten the officer? - Did the person physically attack the officer? - Did the person refuse to put down a weapon after being asked several times? Are not included in a statistical breakdown of police shootings. As such, the number people trot out there simply have no context to show in many cases the officer is justified in using deadly force - where it comes down to it's either the cop dying or the person they're trying to arrest dying. This is probably the one thing that irks the shit of me more than anything. The data about police shootings is unreliable at best, completely inaccurate at worst: Officials with the Justice Department keep no comprehensive database or record of police shootings, instead allowing the nation’s more than 17,000 law enforcement agencies to self-report officer-involved shootings as part of the FBI’s annual data on “justifiable homicides” by law enforcement. “The FBI’s justifiable homicides and the estimates from (arrest-related deaths) both have significant limitations in terms of coverage and reliability that are primarily due to agency participation and measurement issues,” said Michael Planty, one of the Justice Department’s chief statisticians, in an email. Even less data exists for officer-involved shootings that do not result in fatalities. “We do not have information at the national level for police shootings that result in non-fatal injury or no injury to a civilian,” Planty said. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/09/08/how-many-police-shootings-a-year-no-one-knows/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/09/0...
tripzilch 11y ago
You too, could've made that same statement without taking the unnecessary dig at Reddit. Take it to HN--oh, wait. No but seriously, it's one (not very nice) thing saying "don't bring Reddit's bad comment quality to HN". It's an entirely other thing to encourage someone to post shitty comments on another site. That behaviour won't fly at Reddit either. Take it to 4chan.

Reddit would be a better place for comments like this. HN is for reasonable discussion

by seibelj 11y ago

Reddit would be a better place for comments like this. HN is for reasonable discussion

Jesus Christ I'm tired If this, get off your high horse and have the guts to have "a reasonable discussion" on a topic that doesn't fit within your comfort zone. You are a coward for posting your snide comment on an attempt to look intellectually superior. The state of the police in the US is a disease... Defend that if you're so inclined. Your snipey comment to try to quell discourse is abhorrent, and shows you're incapable of actually talking about the issue.

seibelj 11y ago
The comment you responded to was about the utility of quickly filing missing persons reports. Your response said that people with dementia filed as missing would be lucky to survive an encounter with a police officer. It seems like you have an axe to grind that is completely irrelevant to the topic of discussion. I don't know your political inclinations but your arguments are illogical and confusing. I said it would be better for reddit, because comments like yours are common there, while fairly uncommon on HN
- MrJagil 11y ago
  I would say that your stab at reddit was just as meaningless as his initial comment. Why didn't you post what you just posted in the first place? If you really want to help keep HN clean, avoid the snide one-liners. Either leave it at a down-vote or post a proper reply.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > Your response said that people with dementia filed as missing would be lucky to survive an encounter with a police officer. Relatives often call the police when someone with a mental health problem is in distress or has gone for a walk or whatever. We don't know how many encounters with police end happily. We do know that Many of the encounters that end with a loved one being shot started when a relative called the police. (Obviously this is in the US. Other countries have plenty of police involvement with mentally ill people, who are sometimes armed with similar weapons to the US cases, that don't end with the ill person being killed.) I agree with you about how that point is being made.
mirimir 11y ago
You posted an ad hominem attack on police in America. That doesn't even belong on reddit, although it's more common there. That said, police in America are stuck dealing with the consequences of many short-sighted policy decisions. They are not properly trained for social work, mental health services, and so on.
- aquateen 11y ago
  http://laurencetennant.com/bonds/adhominem.html http://laurencetennant.com/bonds/adhominem.html
  - bbcbasic 11y ago
    HN Rule 1 - he/she who Latins first ... wins the argument. Game over.
    - mirimir 11y ago
      De gustibus non disputandem ;) But what about Sanskrit?
- rev_bird 11y ago
  > They are not properly trained for social work, mental health services, and so on. Seems like another one of those short-sighted policy decisions here...
  - morganvachon 11y ago
    Actually many agencies have begun training their officers to properly recognize and approach mentally/emotionally unstable people to offer them assistance, without resorting to use of force. The academy in my area calls it Crisis Intervention Training, and it is a required course for agencies who train at that facility, which is most of northwest Georgia.
- ithought 11y ago
  How is that an ad hominem attack? Most cops aren't properly trained to shoot a gun. Some have 1 training session per year and they have to hit 70% on a target 3 yards away. Most don't seem to know how to react in a confrontation or high-stress situation. The system is flawed but people have personal responsibility too. You can't absolve someone of criminal acts by saying oh it's someone else's fault.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

linkydinkandyou 11y ago

Or Quora! They're all about knee-jerk cop-hate!

DanBC 11y ago

half of the people shot and killed by police are vulnerable people with a mental illness. It's a reasonable point made in an unhelpful inflammatory way. In 30th June 2015 WP had this article (reporting that about a quarter of the people shot and killed by US police that year had a mental illness. The police had often been called out by relatives who wanted help, but who didn't want their loved one shot and killed). Here's a grauniad report that talks about the differing news coverage of US shootings of dogs (lots of coverage) and mentally ill people (local news). I'm not sure that bit is accurate: plenty of dogs are killed by US police with little media mention. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/03/idaho-police-shootings-jeanetta-riley-justice-for-arfee http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/03/idaho-police-... That report talks about the total number of people shot and killed by US police, and about the amount of them who had mental illness, and links to this 2013 PDF that says about 1,000 people are shot and killed by US police each year, and that about half of them have a mental illness. (Scarily the US doesn't collect statistics about this! That's, I think, telling.) http://tacreports.org/storage/documents/2013-justifiable-homicides.pdf http://tacreports.org/storage/documents/2013-justifiable-hom... > Although no national data is collected, multiple informal studies and accounts support the conclusion that “at least half of the people shot and killed by police each year in this country have mental health problems.”

happyscrappy 11y ago
Suicide by cop is a thing and if you aggressively go after officers it is safe to say you may have a mental illness.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Suicide by cop is a thing ... in the US. People aggressively go after cops in other countries and don't get shot. It's poor training and low skills that cause US police to kill so many people.
  - at-fates-hands 11y ago
    >> It's poor training and low skills that cause US police to kill so many people. This is a total over generalization. Mainly because the numbers of people shot by police do not include the context of the shooting. Questions like: - Did the person charge at a police officer? - Did the person brandish a weapon like a knife or gun and threaten the officer? - Did the person physically attack the officer? - Did the person refuse to put down a weapon after being asked several times? Are not included in a statistical breakdown of police shootings. As such, the number people trot out there simply have no context to show in many cases the officer is justified in using deadly force - where it comes down to it's either the cop dying or the person they're trying to arrest dying. This is probably the one thing that irks the shit of me more than anything. The data about police shootings is unreliable at best, completely inaccurate at worst: Officials with the Justice Department keep no comprehensive database or record of police shootings, instead allowing the nation’s more than 17,000 law enforcement agencies to self-report officer-involved shootings as part of the FBI’s annual data on “justifiable homicides” by law enforcement. “The FBI’s justifiable homicides and the estimates from (arrest-related deaths) both have significant limitations in terms of coverage and reliability that are primarily due to agency participation and measurement issues,” said Michael Planty, one of the Justice Department’s chief statisticians, in an email. Even less data exists for officer-involved shootings that do not result in fatalities. “We do not have information at the national level for police shootings that result in non-fatal injury or no injury to a civilian,” Planty said. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/09/08/how-many-police-shootings-a-year-no-one-knows/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/09/0...

tripzilch 11y ago

You too, could've made that same statement without taking the unnecessary dig at Reddit. Take it to HN--oh, wait. No but seriously, it's one (not very nice) thing saying "don't bring Reddit's bad comment quality to HN". It's an entirely other thing to encourage someone to post shitty comments on another site. That behaviour won't fly at Reddit either. Take it to 4chan.