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What does this mean for Taxi drivers in California? My understanding was that they also frequently operated as contractors.

by ricree 11y ago

interesting_att 11y ago
Don't think this will change much. Taxi drivers get to choose how they do their job (i.e. who to pick up). Moreover taxi companies do not forbid customers from tipping nor do they get a percentage of a taxi driver's gratuity. Lastly, you can be a taxi driver at multiple companies, whereas Uber has sent messages to some drivers not to drive for both Lyft + Uber.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Which is why taxi drivers continue to meet the definition of a contractor, while Uber drivers do not. Uber's entire model is built over the control they exert to enable the experience they desire. Without that control, they don't have a brand, but by needing that control, it prohibits their operating model (using contractors).
- smokeyj 11y ago
  What about software contractors that are handed work equipment, required to work a minimum of 40 hrs (full time) and have to show up to an office. How are they not considered employees?
  - jfb 11y ago
    They are. If you are in this situation, consult with a California labor attorney.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      Also report them to the IRS. You'll receive a portion of the taxes and penalties recovered. http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-Tax-Fraud-Activity%3F http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-T...
- aggronn 11y ago
  Maybe things are different in CA, but as a driver in FL: > Taxi drivers get to choose how they do their job (i.e. who to pick up). I can reject any fare. > Moreover taxi companies do not forbid customers from tipping nor do they get a percentage of a taxi driver's gratuity. Uber doesn't forbid me from getting tips, and doesn't take any of the tips that I do get...
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Does Uber define what sort of vehicle you can use? Do they provide any sort of guidelines or rules on how the work is done? Are you only providing services for Uber? If the above answers are yes, they're breaking the law.
    - pki 11y ago
      I almost never see anyone exclusively on uber, usually they are rolling with multiple phones mounted on the dashboard, uber + lyft + some others
    - aggronn 11y ago
      >Do they provide any sort of guidelines or rules on how the work is done? I wonder what constitutes rules on how the work is done. If I use a bike to pick people up and drop them off, and I not doing the work, or am I doing the work in a way that is violates the rules? If I pick people up and then drop them off in the wrong place intentionally, am I not doing the work or am I violating rules on how the work is done? So is the car a specification for work or is it a guideline on how to do the work? Seems like CA thinks its the latter, but I definitely see the argument for the former. Its more clear cut in freelancing--the end product shouldn't indicate the type of computer that it was developed on. For Uber, the car is definitely part of the experience that you're being paid to provide as a driver. Anyways, i'm not qualified to speculate about any of this. I'm just going to be unhappy if a decision similar to this somehow prevents me from making a few hundred bucks every now and then for driving drunk people home from bars.
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
- pbreit 11y ago
  I think all of your assertions are wrong. Not only do Uber drivers have some ability to choose pickups, taxi drivers are usually required to pick up the passenger. Tipping is allowed with Uber. Uber does not take a percentage of tips. Many/most drivers drive for multiple services. I've never heard of the messages you reference.
  - sundaeofshock 11y ago
    In California, drivers are required to pick up passengers due to government regulation and not as a condition of employment.

What does this mean for Taxi drivers in California? My understanding was that they also frequently operated as contractors.

by ricree 11y ago

What does this mean for Taxi drivers in California? My understanding was that they also frequently operated as contractors.

interesting_att 11y ago

Don't think this will change much. Taxi drivers get to choose how they do their job (i.e. who to pick up). Moreover taxi companies do not forbid customers from tipping nor do they get a percentage of a taxi driver's gratuity. Lastly, you can be a taxi driver at multiple companies, whereas Uber has sent messages to some drivers not to drive for both Lyft + Uber.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
Which is why taxi drivers continue to meet the definition of a contractor, while Uber drivers do not. Uber's entire model is built over the control they exert to enable the experience they desire. Without that control, they don't have a brand, but by needing that control, it prohibits their operating model (using contractors).
smokeyj 11y ago
What about software contractors that are handed work equipment, required to work a minimum of 40 hrs (full time) and have to show up to an office. How are they not considered employees?
- jfb 11y ago
  They are. If you are in this situation, consult with a California labor attorney.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Also report them to the IRS. You'll receive a portion of the taxes and penalties recovered. http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-Tax-Fraud-Activity%3F http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-T...
aggronn 11y ago
Maybe things are different in CA, but as a driver in FL: > Taxi drivers get to choose how they do their job (i.e. who to pick up). I can reject any fare. > Moreover taxi companies do not forbid customers from tipping nor do they get a percentage of a taxi driver's gratuity. Uber doesn't forbid me from getting tips, and doesn't take any of the tips that I do get...
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Does Uber define what sort of vehicle you can use? Do they provide any sort of guidelines or rules on how the work is done? Are you only providing services for Uber? If the above answers are yes, they're breaking the law.
  - pki 11y ago
    I almost never see anyone exclusively on uber, usually they are rolling with multiple phones mounted on the dashboard, uber + lyft + some others
  - aggronn 11y ago
    >Do they provide any sort of guidelines or rules on how the work is done? I wonder what constitutes rules on how the work is done. If I use a bike to pick people up and drop them off, and I not doing the work, or am I doing the work in a way that is violates the rules? If I pick people up and then drop them off in the wrong place intentionally, am I not doing the work or am I violating rules on how the work is done? So is the car a specification for work or is it a guideline on how to do the work? Seems like CA thinks its the latter, but I definitely see the argument for the former. Its more clear cut in freelancing--the end product shouldn't indicate the type of computer that it was developed on. For Uber, the car is definitely part of the experience that you're being paid to provide as a driver. Anyways, i'm not qualified to speculate about any of this. I'm just going to be unhappy if a decision similar to this somehow prevents me from making a few hundred bucks every now and then for driving drunk people home from bars.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
pbreit 11y ago
I think all of your assertions are wrong. Not only do Uber drivers have some ability to choose pickups, taxi drivers are usually required to pick up the passenger. Tipping is allowed with Uber. Uber does not take a percentage of tips. Many/most drivers drive for multiple services. I've never heard of the messages you reference.
- sundaeofshock 11y ago
  In California, drivers are required to pick up passengers due to government regulation and not as a condition of employment.