5 ms·

Adding street cars and limiting car traffic would be an excellent solution in Manhattan. Installing street cars are probably two orders of magnitude cheaper th

by et2o 11y ago

Adding street cars and limiting car traffic would be an excellent solution in Manhattan. Installing street cars are probably two orders of magnitude cheaper than digging the equivalent subway, and we have too many cars as it is. The second avenue subway is basically a joke; it only has three stops on second avenue, and construction will be shut down without doing any of the additional phases of construction that would take the subway further south. They should also close 1/2 of the avenues and turn them into parks. It would greatly increase foot traffic to the businesses on the street, and would make Manhattan much more livable.

JackFr 11y ago
What will the businesses sell? Air dropped supplies?
- fowkswe 11y ago
  This argument has the same line of reasoning that the businesses originally tried to use when the city did put in buffered bike lines - that removing unfettered automobile / truck access was the death knell to commerce (Like these: http://gothamist.com/2011/07/14/post_blames_bike_lanes_for_bad_busi.php http://gothamist.com/2011/07/14/post_blames_bike_lanes_for_b... http://www.villagevoice.com/news/new-east-village-bike-lanes-good-for-bikers-bad-for-business-6694622 http://www.villagevoice.com/news/new-east-village-bike-lanes...). In the case of the bike lanes, this is the furthest from the truth (have a Google for lots of arguments about the merit of increased bike traffic). I'm not sure what the solution is, but there certainly is one that would support a few car/truck free avenues.
  - Strang 11y ago
    I believe he meant that trucks need access to the business so the business can receive its stock
    - nmrm2 11y ago
      If this is the concern, then it's a misplaced one, especially for streetcars. It's totally common in European cities for the busiest streets (with shops etc) to be exclusively lanes of recessed rail. Trucks have no problem delivering supplies; in fact, it looked a lot more pleasant than trying to weave in and out of traffic and hope to god loading area parking isn't blocked a la busy streets in US cities...
    - fowkswe 11y ago
      I'm suggesting closing the avenues during the daytime, especially rush hours. Deliveries and garbage pickup can happen early morning or in the evening (which is already the case for garbage pickup).
- et2o 11y ago
  They will just drive the truck from the next avenue over to the avenue that is closed and carry it from there. I don't think this wouldn't add that much delivery time. As another commenter said, this setup is totally normal in most old European cities. Not a big deal at all.
fowkswe 11y ago
> They should also close 1/2 of the avenues and turn them into parks I've always thought this too. The city has made attempts to make up / down town bike routes on most avenues but it's still a dicey proposition to ride through midtown. At least close 2 of them allocating half of each for uptown and downtown bike traffic. The other half could be pedestrian / public park space.
- JackFr 11y ago
  The 1.5 million people living in Manhattan (not even counting those who come in to to work here) need toilet paper, popsicles, beer, vegetables, furniture, etc. to live. Additionally we need our popsicle sticks and empty beer cans hauled away. Trucks driving on avenues facilitate this. I happily live without a car in Manhattan, and have for the past 20 years, but I realize that my walk/public transport lifestyle is facilitated by trucks which bring things to my local stores.
  - fowkswe 11y ago
    See my comment above, but I think the most obvious solution would be to contain deliveries to non rush hour times - ala garbage pickup.
  - Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
    You don't need trucks to deliver at all hours of the day; you can coordinate it such that deliveries can happen at night, or non-rush hour times. Or even allow only delivery trucks during the day, but have them drive slow, like you see on beach boardwalks and other areas normally closed off to cars. It's not like you must choose between allowing all vehicles and allowing none of them. There are reasonable middle grounds.

by et2o 11y ago

JackFr 11y ago

What will the businesses sell? Air dropped supplies?

fowkswe 11y ago
This argument has the same line of reasoning that the businesses originally tried to use when the city did put in buffered bike lines - that removing unfettered automobile / truck access was the death knell to commerce (Like these: http://gothamist.com/2011/07/14/post_blames_bike_lanes_for_bad_busi.php http://gothamist.com/2011/07/14/post_blames_bike_lanes_for_b... http://www.villagevoice.com/news/new-east-village-bike-lanes-good-for-bikers-bad-for-business-6694622 http://www.villagevoice.com/news/new-east-village-bike-lanes...). In the case of the bike lanes, this is the furthest from the truth (have a Google for lots of arguments about the merit of increased bike traffic). I'm not sure what the solution is, but there certainly is one that would support a few car/truck free avenues.
- Strang 11y ago
  I believe he meant that trucks need access to the business so the business can receive its stock
  - nmrm2 11y ago
    If this is the concern, then it's a misplaced one, especially for streetcars. It's totally common in European cities for the busiest streets (with shops etc) to be exclusively lanes of recessed rail. Trucks have no problem delivering supplies; in fact, it looked a lot more pleasant than trying to weave in and out of traffic and hope to god loading area parking isn't blocked a la busy streets in US cities...
  - fowkswe 11y ago
    I'm suggesting closing the avenues during the daytime, especially rush hours. Deliveries and garbage pickup can happen early morning or in the evening (which is already the case for garbage pickup).
et2o 11y ago
They will just drive the truck from the next avenue over to the avenue that is closed and carry it from there. I don't think this wouldn't add that much delivery time. As another commenter said, this setup is totally normal in most old European cities. Not a big deal at all.

fowkswe 11y ago

> They should also close 1/2 of the avenues and turn them into parks I've always thought this too. The city has made attempts to make up / down town bike routes on most avenues but it's still a dicey proposition to ride through midtown. At least close 2 of them allocating half of each for uptown and downtown bike traffic. The other half could be pedestrian / public park space.

JackFr 11y ago
The 1.5 million people living in Manhattan (not even counting those who come in to to work here) need toilet paper, popsicles, beer, vegetables, furniture, etc. to live. Additionally we need our popsicle sticks and empty beer cans hauled away. Trucks driving on avenues facilitate this. I happily live without a car in Manhattan, and have for the past 20 years, but I realize that my walk/public transport lifestyle is facilitated by trucks which bring things to my local stores.
- fowkswe 11y ago
  See my comment above, but I think the most obvious solution would be to contain deliveries to non rush hour times - ala garbage pickup.
- Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
  You don't need trucks to deliver at all hours of the day; you can coordinate it such that deliveries can happen at night, or non-rush hour times. Or even allow only delivery trucks during the day, but have them drive slow, like you see on beach boardwalks and other areas normally closed off to cars. It's not like you must choose between allowing all vehicles and allowing none of them. There are reasonable middle grounds.