5 ms·

I'm sorry, I know it makes me an awful person, but I absolutely loathe the author and her husband. There are people starving around the world, dying because of

by ebbv 11y ago

I'm sorry, I know it makes me an awful person, but I absolutely loathe the author and her husband. There are people starving around the world, dying because of lack of basic medical care, clean water, etc. Whatever they do in their own home, they live in a society and world of the 21st century. What they are doing is like the worst form of privileged hipsterism I can imagine.

dstyrb 11y ago
“When cheap modern things in our lives inevitably broke, we replaced them with sturdy historic equivalents instead of more disposable modern trash.” There it is, the inevitable disdain, the hallmark of the chronic hipster.
- JorgeGT 11y ago
  The crucial difference is that cheap disposable modern trash can be afforded by almost everyone. The purchase of a single automobile was a village-wide social event when my grandfather was young. Same with a television when my father was young.
shaftoe 11y ago
I'm finding the article hilarious as a father. Let's see how long she maintains this production if she ever has kids. Have fun scrubbing cloth diapers out in a bucket.
- ashark 11y ago
  First thing my wife said when I told her about this article: "I can tell they don't have kids"
  - luckydude 11y ago
    Yup. Kids are a reality check. Your wife is spot on.
hyperion2010 11y ago
Unless you're living in the woods right now I don't think you have any moral authority here.
- javert 11y ago
  Moral authority doesn't come from one's station in society. It comes from approaching the question rationally and being able to prove your case. Indeed, the author has no moral authority.
retrogradeorbit 11y ago
The minute they have a medical emergency it will be straight back into the arms of modern technology.
- nsxwolf 11y ago
  Yeah? So? I didn't get the impression they were extremists. They just like living this way.
golemotron 11y ago
I don't know.. maybe compare their carbon footprint and yours? It's easy to create an arbitrary moral high ground. Harder to notice how arbitrary they are.
Nacraile 11y ago
> I absolutely loathe the author and her husband. ... > What they are doing is like the worst form of privileged hipsterism I can imagine. Why such intense dislike? They may be odd, but they're not hurting you or anybody else. What's wrong with them doing what makes them happy? I just don't understand all the hipster hate. > There are people starving around the world, dying because of lack of basic medical care, clean water, etc. What does that have to do with this?
morganvachon 11y ago
> What they are doing is like the worst form of privileged hipsterism I can imagine. And yet it impedes your own way of life...how exactly? If this couple were to stop living the life they chose to live, and instead lived exactly like you or I, how in the world would that improve the lives of starving, sick people in other countries, let alone their own? The cognitive dissonance in your comment is staggering.
m0v_eax 11y ago
To each their own. I loath your pessimism and judgement more than the author and her husband. In fact, I find their efforts ambitious, albeit peculiar and boring at times.
pjlegato 11y ago
Pompous moralizing is far more annoying.
davnicwil 11y ago
I understand where you're coming from, I really do, but that line of thinking, taken to the end, is dangerous. Should anyone be justified in doing anything, just because they want to, even if there's no direct positive effects on society? I would guess virtually nobody would say absolutely no to this, of course, but are there then thresholds of type and frequency of activities over which the answer becomes an absolute no? What then are those thresholds? If the thresholds depends on other variables, like your own personal wealth now and in the past, then what are the values of those variables? Is there an absolute cap on the level of enjoyment one deserves out of life without helping others directly before one must stop, stay still at that level, and devote any further energies to helping others? What is that cap? I think we all have internal intuition for these thresholds and values for ourselves, but you can't force these on any other individual, and certainly not on society as a whole. Entertaining that idea that you can or should be able to is dangerous. Doing direct harm to other people for your own enjoyment obviously should be condemned and prevented - but passively not helping others and instead using your resources and time purely on your own private entertainment, as is the case here, should have no net negative effect on the world. Live and let live.
- javert 11y ago
  I am sympathetic to your argument, but would take it farther. A person has no obliation to others, whatsoever, period. Anyone who disagrees would have to overcome the burden of proof. (Which you can't, by the way, since I know things that would contradict a positive argument for obligation to others as it is generally conceived.) --- Practically everybody makes moral assumptions purely based on emotions, possibly with some post-hoc rationalizations. But our emotions didn't have to be what they were---they vary between time periods, cultures, and individuals. Emotions are the product of premises that one has accepted, rationally or (for the most part today) irrationally.
throwaway134 11y ago
Well, if you check out some of her books, you'll find that the most helpfully ranked Amazon reviewers couldn't stand her condescending and pretentious tone. http://www.amazon.com/Victorian-Secrets-Corset-Taught-Present/product-reviews/1626361754/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_summary/190-2000436-6009567?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=byRankDescending http://www.amazon.com/Victorian-Secrets-Corset-Taught-Presen...
luckydude 11y ago
ebbv is getting a lot of hate but while I don't loathe the author they do seem a little out there to me. I'm a techy guy who lives at the very edge of the grid (we're the end of the line for PG&E). I feel no need to tell all of you about our PVC problems or tree problems or fire problems, etc. They strike me as someone with an agenda. As an example of stuff I don't talk about, we just had a fire up here: http://mcvoy.com/lm/2015-fire/index.html http://mcvoy.com/lm/2015-fire/index.html 2 miles away from my house, kind of scary. I could have made a blog post about that and gotten a lot of attention (maybe) as a techy guy next to certain death. Fire is a thing where I live, it's a scary thing. Whatever. I chose to live out here. If that comes with some problems those are my problems. I kinda agree with ebbv that these people seem like hipsters. I have much more respect for people who make hard choices that lead to tough lives and they own it. And show how they got past those problems.
- beatpanda 11y ago
  > I have much more respect for people who make hard choices that lead to tough lives and they own it. And show how they got past those problems. Isn't that exactly what they're doing with their writing?
  - luckydude 11y ago
    Maybe. Maybe it's just me but it seems not so much. There are tons of how to videos out there. If you go look at some of them and then go look at this, does it seem like how to?
    - beatpanda 11y ago
      Seems like they've written several books more in the "how-to" vein, and it seems like that's not the kind of writing Vox asked for for this particular column.
beatpanda 11y ago
People tend to react reflexively negatively to people who live life on their own terms, and are often really good at locating the reason for their negativity outside of their own jealousy. Why do you make the choices you make in life? What template are you following, and why? Who designed your lifestyle, and why is it better than this couple's? And more importantly, how, exactly, is the standard of living of your amorphous blob of "people starving all over the world" affected more by people reusing centuries-old technology than the people fully invested in the constant churn of new commodities with an upgrade cycle of about 2 years? And why level this criticism at these people? There are currently billions of dollars of capital deployed within 5 miles of where I'm sitting in San Francisco to make the lives of the richest people on Earth marginally more comfortable. The investment decisions made by the owners of that capital have a tangible impact on the direction our civilization goes in that one person wearing a different style of clothing definitely would not. tl;dr get a grip.

by ebbv 11y ago

dstyrb 11y ago

“When cheap modern things in our lives inevitably broke, we replaced them with sturdy historic equivalents instead of more disposable modern trash.” There it is, the inevitable disdain, the hallmark of the chronic hipster.

JorgeGT 11y ago
The crucial difference is that cheap disposable modern trash can be afforded by almost everyone. The purchase of a single automobile was a village-wide social event when my grandfather was young. Same with a television when my father was young.

shaftoe 11y ago

I'm finding the article hilarious as a father. Let's see how long she maintains this production if she ever has kids. Have fun scrubbing cloth diapers out in a bucket.

ashark 11y ago
First thing my wife said when I told her about this article: "I can tell they don't have kids"
- luckydude 11y ago
  Yup. Kids are a reality check. Your wife is spot on.

hyperion2010 11y ago

Unless you're living in the woods right now I don't think you have any moral authority here.

javert 11y ago
Moral authority doesn't come from one's station in society. It comes from approaching the question rationally and being able to prove your case. Indeed, the author has no moral authority.

retrogradeorbit 11y ago

The minute they have a medical emergency it will be straight back into the arms of modern technology.

nsxwolf 11y ago
Yeah? So? I didn't get the impression they were extremists. They just like living this way.

golemotron 11y ago

I don't know.. maybe compare their carbon footprint and yours? It's easy to create an arbitrary moral high ground. Harder to notice how arbitrary they are.

Nacraile 11y ago

> I absolutely loathe the author and her husband. ... > What they are doing is like the worst form of privileged hipsterism I can imagine. Why such intense dislike? They may be odd, but they're not hurting you or anybody else. What's wrong with them doing what makes them happy? I just don't understand all the hipster hate. > There are people starving around the world, dying because of lack of basic medical care, clean water, etc. What does that have to do with this?

morganvachon 11y ago

> What they are doing is like the worst form of privileged hipsterism I can imagine. And yet it impedes your own way of life...how exactly? If this couple were to stop living the life they chose to live, and instead lived exactly like you or I, how in the world would that improve the lives of starving, sick people in other countries, let alone their own? The cognitive dissonance in your comment is staggering.

m0v_eax 11y ago

To each their own. I loath your pessimism and judgement more than the author and her husband. In fact, I find their efforts ambitious, albeit peculiar and boring at times.

pjlegato 11y ago

Pompous moralizing is far more annoying.

davnicwil 11y ago

I understand where you're coming from, I really do, but that line of thinking, taken to the end, is dangerous. Should anyone be justified in doing anything, just because they want to, even if there's no direct positive effects on society? I would guess virtually nobody would say absolutely no to this, of course, but are there then thresholds of type and frequency of activities over which the answer becomes an absolute no? What then are those thresholds? If the thresholds depends on other variables, like your own personal wealth now and in the past, then what are the values of those variables? Is there an absolute cap on the level of enjoyment one deserves out of life without helping others directly before one must stop, stay still at that level, and devote any further energies to helping others? What is that cap? I think we all have internal intuition for these thresholds and values for ourselves, but you can't force these on any other individual, and certainly not on society as a whole. Entertaining that idea that you can or should be able to is dangerous. Doing direct harm to other people for your own enjoyment obviously should be condemned and prevented - but passively not helping others and instead using your resources and time purely on your own private entertainment, as is the case here, should have no net negative effect on the world. Live and let live.

javert 11y ago
I am sympathetic to your argument, but would take it farther. A person has no obliation to others, whatsoever, period. Anyone who disagrees would have to overcome the burden of proof. (Which you can't, by the way, since I know things that would contradict a positive argument for obligation to others as it is generally conceived.) --- Practically everybody makes moral assumptions purely based on emotions, possibly with some post-hoc rationalizations. But our emotions didn't have to be what they were---they vary between time periods, cultures, and individuals. Emotions are the product of premises that one has accepted, rationally or (for the most part today) irrationally.

throwaway134 11y ago

Well, if you check out some of her books, you'll find that the most helpfully ranked Amazon reviewers couldn't stand her condescending and pretentious tone. http://www.amazon.com/Victorian-Secrets-Corset-Taught-Present/product-reviews/1626361754/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_summary/190-2000436-6009567?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=byRankDescending http://www.amazon.com/Victorian-Secrets-Corset-Taught-Presen...

luckydude 11y ago

ebbv is getting a lot of hate but while I don't loathe the author they do seem a little out there to me. I'm a techy guy who lives at the very edge of the grid (we're the end of the line for PG&E). I feel no need to tell all of you about our PVC problems or tree problems or fire problems, etc. They strike me as someone with an agenda. As an example of stuff I don't talk about, we just had a fire up here: http://mcvoy.com/lm/2015-fire/index.html http://mcvoy.com/lm/2015-fire/index.html 2 miles away from my house, kind of scary. I could have made a blog post about that and gotten a lot of attention (maybe) as a techy guy next to certain death. Fire is a thing where I live, it's a scary thing. Whatever. I chose to live out here. If that comes with some problems those are my problems. I kinda agree with ebbv that these people seem like hipsters. I have much more respect for people who make hard choices that lead to tough lives and they own it. And show how they got past those problems.

beatpanda 11y ago
> I have much more respect for people who make hard choices that lead to tough lives and they own it. And show how they got past those problems. Isn't that exactly what they're doing with their writing?
- luckydude 11y ago
  Maybe. Maybe it's just me but it seems not so much. There are tons of how to videos out there. If you go look at some of them and then go look at this, does it seem like how to?
  - beatpanda 11y ago
    Seems like they've written several books more in the "how-to" vein, and it seems like that's not the kind of writing Vox asked for for this particular column.

beatpanda 11y ago

People tend to react reflexively negatively to people who live life on their own terms, and are often really good at locating the reason for their negativity outside of their own jealousy. Why do you make the choices you make in life? What template are you following, and why? Who designed your lifestyle, and why is it better than this couple's? And more importantly, how, exactly, is the standard of living of your amorphous blob of "people starving all over the world" affected more by people reusing centuries-old technology than the people fully invested in the constant churn of new commodities with an upgrade cycle of about 2 years? And why level this criticism at these people? There are currently billions of dollars of capital deployed within 5 miles of where I'm sitting in San Francisco to make the lives of the richest people on Earth marginally more comfortable. The investment decisions made by the owners of that capital have a tangible impact on the direction our civilization goes in that one person wearing a different style of clothing definitely would not. tl;dr get a grip.