5 ms·

This comment is exactly why HN won't never understand anything about Apple announcements. Highly technical folks, unable to get out of their technical bias, rep

This comment is exactly why HN won't never understand anything about Apple announcements. Highly technical folks, unable to get out of their technical bias, reprimanding the extremely successful decision makers of a successful company because they pretend to know the matter, while completely ignoring the real world scenarios that actually drive Apple products sales.

rythie 11y ago
It's the standard ". No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. " response. http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ipod http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ip...
- AndrewKemendo 11y ago
  To be fair, I liked my Nomad Zen Xtra way better than the 1-3rd Gen iPod.
  - Gigablah 11y ago
    The Nomad II was my dream gadget. I absolutely loved it.
halayli 11y ago
Suddenly, they are industry and product experts. Generally, HNers are experts about any topic.
shas3 11y ago
Even taking usability into account, an argument can be made that iPad Pro is neither here nor there. Consider a simple use case: let's say iPad Pro is the sole enterprise device handed out to employees at a company. AFAIK, even a simple thing like compressing multiple files (given irrational attachment size limits won't be going away any time soon) and sending them via email will be impossible given how closed and pared down iOS really is. How will you do file management? What about specific applications (e.g. Solidworks)? They will have to be re-done for iOS, which could be a pretty hard thing for small vendors. iPad Pro and the new iOS will have to be step change over iPad Air and current iOS to be appealing as a laptop replacement. The new iOS must be so near to OS X as for the difference to be immaterial. On the other hand, a Surface Pro is truly a replacement for a laptop as it features a full blown Windows 8 (or 10, now).
- comex 11y ago
  File management - new built-in app in iOS 9: http://www.businessinsider.com/this-hidden-app-in-ios-9-lets-you-manage-your-files-like-dropbox-2015-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/this-hidden-app-in-ios-9-lets... Compressing multiple files - this has actually been possible since iOS 8: http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/winzipr-for-ios-now-works-with-icloud-drive-zip-protect-and-safely-share-files-1986454.htm http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/winzipr-for-ios-now...
  - wingerlang 11y ago
    By that definition of file management it is the same as e.g. the Dropbox app isn't it? Not "true" file management like iFile or such apps (jb).
- twiceaday 11y ago
  Being a sole enterprise device is not a simple use case and it has nothing to do with general usability as far as most people are concerned. Your comment is an epitome of what the post you replied to was talking about.
  - shas3 11y ago
    On the contrary, there is perhaps only one use case where iPad Pro could be a boon for users: industrial, graphic, and sundry designers, visual artists, etc. As I see it today, iPad Pro is a niche product, not a mass-market pro tablet like the ones made by PC manufacturers. Everyone else can either just continue using iPads or use full featured laptops. Contrast this with the Surface Pro.
    - intended 11y ago
      In those cases, most people would want to have full photoshop/ z brush instead of an app. Theres also lots of artists who have reviewed the surface pro line favorably. Notably penny arcade's Mike K, and MTG's Noah Bradley. When designers/visual artists are going to look at the market they are going to see surface pro, not iPad pro. To top it off - The pro is also relatively closer to the cintiq ideal. Couple that with the iPad pro's price point? How will you justify getting an iPad pro? The parallax, accuracy and hands on reviews aren't out yet. I don't see who in the digital design world would buy this, or why.
deleted 11y ago
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mamon 11y ago
It is not a "technical bias", it is more your bias towards Apple. Take the last year's iPhone 6 as an example: HN members complained about small screen sizes for a long time, and it took Steve Job's death to actually make that happen, but gues what? iPhone 6 is most succesfull iPhone ever. Apple did some innovations few years ago (original iPhone, iPad), but since then most of new features in Apple products are taken from Android an WP devices. I personally would like to see Apple's response to Lenovo Yoga 3 (convertible tablet/ultrabook) and for some time I hoped that iPad Pro will be just that. Unfortunately it isn't so the chances of me buying it just fell around 0%.
- zimpenfish 11y ago
  > iPhone 6 is most succesfull iPhone ever. They did a lot of background work getting the OS and UIKit and developers up to speed for supporting multiple device sizes - necessary for introducing bigger screens - and I would suggest that played a large part in making the 6 successful. People weren't getting a crappy scaled experience from the apps they already knew.
- jsz0 11y ago
  > It is not a "technical bias", it is more your bias towards Apple. Preference or bias? No random person commenting on Hacker News is obligated to be unbiased. We're allowed to have preferences still right? My preferences might be different depending on different contexts. I rarely order cocktail sauce to put on my chocolate ice cream but I also rarely order whip cream to put on my shrimp. That doesn't make me bias against cocktail sauce or whip cream.
- etchalon 11y ago
  So 3D Touch is something Android has? This is mostly a tongue-in-cheek comment, but the broader point is that of course Apple has "innovated" since the original iPhone, iPad, iWhatever. In some big ways, and in some small ways. But so have other players in the industry. Apple has borrowed some good ideas from them, just as they have borrowed good ideas from Apple. However saying Apple hasn't innovated since those original announcements is so hilariously ludicrous.
dataker 11y ago
His comment doesn't represent someone 'highly technical, unable to get out of their technical bias'. In fact, a 'sales guy' or a banker could have shared a similar opinion. You don't need to be 'highly technical' to be pragmatic and critical.
- oldmanjay 11y ago
  Ignoring reality in favor of emotionally satisfying opinions doesn't count as either pragmatic or cynical. Under Tim Cook's leadership, Apple continues to break records as it remains the most valuable company in the world. What wake-up call is needed here, exactly?
vacri 11y ago
Apple has made a lot of flop products. Their successful products are real killers, but there's this weird confirmation-bias-field surrounding them that makes fans forget their numerous flops.
- cag_ii 11y ago
  If you really wanted to be objective, you could replace "Apple" in your comment with the name of just about any leading tech. company.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

rythie 11y ago

It's the standard ". No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. " response. http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ipod http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ip...

AndrewKemendo 11y ago
To be fair, I liked my Nomad Zen Xtra way better than the 1-3rd Gen iPod.
- Gigablah 11y ago
  The Nomad II was my dream gadget. I absolutely loved it.

halayli 11y ago

Suddenly, they are industry and product experts. Generally, HNers are experts about any topic.

shas3 11y ago

Even taking usability into account, an argument can be made that iPad Pro is neither here nor there. Consider a simple use case: let's say iPad Pro is the sole enterprise device handed out to employees at a company. AFAIK, even a simple thing like compressing multiple files (given irrational attachment size limits won't be going away any time soon) and sending them via email will be impossible given how closed and pared down iOS really is. How will you do file management? What about specific applications (e.g. Solidworks)? They will have to be re-done for iOS, which could be a pretty hard thing for small vendors. iPad Pro and the new iOS will have to be step change over iPad Air and current iOS to be appealing as a laptop replacement. The new iOS must be so near to OS X as for the difference to be immaterial. On the other hand, a Surface Pro is truly a replacement for a laptop as it features a full blown Windows 8 (or 10, now).

comex 11y ago
File management - new built-in app in iOS 9: http://www.businessinsider.com/this-hidden-app-in-ios-9-lets-you-manage-your-files-like-dropbox-2015-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/this-hidden-app-in-ios-9-lets... Compressing multiple files - this has actually been possible since iOS 8: http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/winzipr-for-ios-now-works-with-icloud-drive-zip-protect-and-safely-share-files-1986454.htm http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/winzipr-for-ios-now...
- wingerlang 11y ago
  By that definition of file management it is the same as e.g. the Dropbox app isn't it? Not "true" file management like iFile or such apps (jb).
twiceaday 11y ago
Being a sole enterprise device is not a simple use case and it has nothing to do with general usability as far as most people are concerned. Your comment is an epitome of what the post you replied to was talking about.
- shas3 11y ago
  On the contrary, there is perhaps only one use case where iPad Pro could be a boon for users: industrial, graphic, and sundry designers, visual artists, etc. As I see it today, iPad Pro is a niche product, not a mass-market pro tablet like the ones made by PC manufacturers. Everyone else can either just continue using iPads or use full featured laptops. Contrast this with the Surface Pro.
  - intended 11y ago
    In those cases, most people would want to have full photoshop/ z brush instead of an app. Theres also lots of artists who have reviewed the surface pro line favorably. Notably penny arcade's Mike K, and MTG's Noah Bradley. When designers/visual artists are going to look at the market they are going to see surface pro, not iPad pro. To top it off - The pro is also relatively closer to the cintiq ideal. Couple that with the iPad pro's price point? How will you justify getting an iPad pro? The parallax, accuracy and hands on reviews aren't out yet. I don't see who in the digital design world would buy this, or why.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

mamon 11y ago

It is not a "technical bias", it is more your bias towards Apple. Take the last year's iPhone 6 as an example: HN members complained about small screen sizes for a long time, and it took Steve Job's death to actually make that happen, but gues what? iPhone 6 is most succesfull iPhone ever. Apple did some innovations few years ago (original iPhone, iPad), but since then most of new features in Apple products are taken from Android an WP devices. I personally would like to see Apple's response to Lenovo Yoga 3 (convertible tablet/ultrabook) and for some time I hoped that iPad Pro will be just that. Unfortunately it isn't so the chances of me buying it just fell around 0%.

zimpenfish 11y ago
> iPhone 6 is most succesfull iPhone ever. They did a lot of background work getting the OS and UIKit and developers up to speed for supporting multiple device sizes - necessary for introducing bigger screens - and I would suggest that played a large part in making the 6 successful. People weren't getting a crappy scaled experience from the apps they already knew.
jsz0 11y ago
> It is not a "technical bias", it is more your bias towards Apple. Preference or bias? No random person commenting on Hacker News is obligated to be unbiased. We're allowed to have preferences still right? My preferences might be different depending on different contexts. I rarely order cocktail sauce to put on my chocolate ice cream but I also rarely order whip cream to put on my shrimp. That doesn't make me bias against cocktail sauce or whip cream.
etchalon 11y ago
So 3D Touch is something Android has? This is mostly a tongue-in-cheek comment, but the broader point is that of course Apple has "innovated" since the original iPhone, iPad, iWhatever. In some big ways, and in some small ways. But so have other players in the industry. Apple has borrowed some good ideas from them, just as they have borrowed good ideas from Apple. However saying Apple hasn't innovated since those original announcements is so hilariously ludicrous.

dataker 11y ago

His comment doesn't represent someone 'highly technical, unable to get out of their technical bias'. In fact, a 'sales guy' or a banker could have shared a similar opinion. You don't need to be 'highly technical' to be pragmatic and critical.

oldmanjay 11y ago
Ignoring reality in favor of emotionally satisfying opinions doesn't count as either pragmatic or cynical. Under Tim Cook's leadership, Apple continues to break records as it remains the most valuable company in the world. What wake-up call is needed here, exactly?

vacri 11y ago

Apple has made a lot of flop products. Their successful products are real killers, but there's this weird confirmation-bias-field surrounding them that makes fans forget their numerous flops.

cag_ii 11y ago
If you really wanted to be objective, you could replace "Apple" in your comment with the name of just about any leading tech. company.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]