4 ms·

This is where HN breaks down. The branding is explicitly tvOS, not TvOS (HN used to have pedantic mods manually change all titles to make first-letter-caps eve

by seiji 11y ago

This is where HN breaks down. The branding is explicitly tvOS, not TvOS (HN used to have pedantic mods manually change all titles to make first-letter-caps even when not relevant, not sure if it's automatic now or not). There's actually a special unicode character you can use to begin a sentence if your subject is lowercase: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/203e/index.htm http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/203e/index.htm

JosephRedfern 11y ago
Are you serious? HN is breaking down because someone didn't follow Apple's brand identity when posting about a product that was launched about 2 hours ago!? If anything, THIS is where HN is breaking down!
- seiji 11y ago
  Enforcing arbitrary rules breaking brand names is a bad thing. IPhones should never be typed like that. Now we also have watchOS and tvOS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUAK7t3Lf8s&t=3m22s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUAK7t3Lf8s&t=3m22s
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    site:wikipedia.org "stylized as" No one but the original marketer is obligated to honor stylized brand names. How many people have you seen type out "c|net" instead of "CNET"?
  - ceejayoz 11y ago
    > Enforcing arbitrary rules breaking brand names is a bad thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion Why is it a bad thing? What measurable harm has come to Apple - hell, anyone - by having the link here titled with 'TvOS' instead of 'tvOS'?
- karimhossenbux 11y ago
  Maybe he was saying that because HN puts a uppercase to the title first char?
- apetresc 11y ago
  He means that the submission guidelines (capital letters) makes it impossible to follow the brand identity. He's referring to HN the piece of software, not the community.
  - JosephRedfern 11y ago
    I see, in that case, I apologise seiji - but I'd still argue that it's not a huge deal :)
- happyscrappy 11y ago
  Maybe we could have a mobile style sheet first?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
TheBiv 11y ago
I don't really think this is HN "breaking down" :) The OP may have typed the T in capital.
- seiji 11y ago
  Well, "break down" as in "The sacred rules of HN conflict with actual reality because pedantics." You get to see the cracks in our gilded nerd armor.
- detaro 11y ago
  Nah, it actually does change it automatically. Now if that's good or bad or doesn't matter is open to debate...
Jtsummers 11y ago
The first letter is (used to be?) made capital in HN titles automatically. I've had to go back and change this manually after the initial submission. Most folks probably haven't run into it before. And anytime I corrected it, it remained corrected.
arm 11y ago
Upvoted just because your link to U+203E OVERLINE lead me to finding out the difference between it and the macron¹. If I understand correctly though, you’re saying to get around the automatic capitalization of submitted titles by using an overline as the first character? So this title would look like this instead: ‾tvOS for Developers …but that doesn’t really seem very elegant to me. Perhaps you could achieve a similar affect by using an invisible character at the beginning of the sentence instead, such as U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE². Since it’s not in Unicode’s 'Zs' (Separator, space) character category—in addition to its 'Wspace' key having the value 'N'—it’s unlikely that if HN’s code strips leading and trailing whitespace from submitted titles, U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE will be stripped. I guess if that doesn’t work, you could always replace U+0054 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER T with a similar looking lowercase equivalent such as U+0288 LATIN SMALL LETTER T WITH RETROFLEX HOOK³ or even U+1D5CD MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF SMALL T⁴ (that’s assuming you’re fine with some people not being able to view it due to not having a font installed with a glyph for that character)… but I’d avoid misusing the semantic significance of those characters like that. ―――――― ¹ — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overline ² — http://graphemica.com/200B http://graphemica.com/200B ³ — http://graphemica.com/%CA%88 http://graphemica.com/%CA%88 ⁴ — http://graphemica.com/%F0%9D%97%8D http://graphemica.com/%F0%9D%97%8D
- arm 11y ago
  Side Note: Unlike what Graphemica may have you believe, there are actually more fonts than just DejaVu Sans that contain glyphs for the Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols block. Modern versions of OS X come with STIXGeneral¹ (v1.1.0 on OS X v10.9 at least), and fonts like Symbola² and Everson Mono³ also have glyphs for them. (I love Symbola’s glyphs for the MATHEMATICAL ITALIC characters such as U+1D463 MATHEMATICAL ITALIC SMALL V⁴, while Everson Mono is fantastic if you need a monospaced font for all those characters⁵). ―――――― ¹ — http://stixfonts.org/ http://stixfonts.org/ ² — https://web.archive.org/web/20150625020428/http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/ https://web.archive.org/web/20150625020428/http://users.teil... ³ — http://evertype.com/emono/ http://evertype.com/emono/ ⁴ — http://f.cl.ly/items/2h2p0r1F1h2E1y2o2y0c/Screen%20Shot%202015-09-10%20at%2011.51.55%20AM.png http://f.cl.ly/items/2h2p0r1F1h2E1y2o2y0c/Screen%20Shot%2020... ⁵ — http://evertype.com/emono/emtype.html http://evertype.com/emono/emtype.html

by seiji 11y ago

JosephRedfern 11y ago

Are you serious? HN is breaking down because someone didn't follow Apple's brand identity when posting about a product that was launched about 2 hours ago!? If anything, THIS is where HN is breaking down!

seiji 11y ago
Enforcing arbitrary rules breaking brand names is a bad thing. IPhones should never be typed like that. Now we also have watchOS and tvOS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUAK7t3Lf8s&t=3m22s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUAK7t3Lf8s&t=3m22s
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  site:wikipedia.org "stylized as" No one but the original marketer is obligated to honor stylized brand names. How many people have you seen type out "c|net" instead of "CNET"?
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  > Enforcing arbitrary rules breaking brand names is a bad thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion Why is it a bad thing? What measurable harm has come to Apple - hell, anyone - by having the link here titled with 'TvOS' instead of 'tvOS'?
karimhossenbux 11y ago
Maybe he was saying that because HN puts a uppercase to the title first char?
apetresc 11y ago
He means that the submission guidelines (capital letters) makes it impossible to follow the brand identity. He's referring to HN the piece of software, not the community.
- JosephRedfern 11y ago
  I see, in that case, I apologise seiji - but I'd still argue that it's not a huge deal :)
happyscrappy 11y ago
Maybe we could have a mobile style sheet first?

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

TheBiv 11y ago

I don't really think this is HN "breaking down" :) The OP may have typed the T in capital.

seiji 11y ago
Well, "break down" as in "The sacred rules of HN conflict with actual reality because pedantics." You get to see the cracks in our gilded nerd armor.
detaro 11y ago
Nah, it actually does change it automatically. Now if that's good or bad or doesn't matter is open to debate...

Jtsummers 11y ago

The first letter is (used to be?) made capital in HN titles automatically. I've had to go back and change this manually after the initial submission. Most folks probably haven't run into it before. And anytime I corrected it, it remained corrected.

arm 11y ago

Upvoted just because your link to U+203E OVERLINE lead me to finding out the difference between it and the macron¹. If I understand correctly though, you’re saying to get around the automatic capitalization of submitted titles by using an overline as the first character? So this title would look like this instead: ‾tvOS for Developers …but that doesn’t really seem very elegant to me. Perhaps you could achieve a similar affect by using an invisible character at the beginning of the sentence instead, such as U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE². Since it’s not in Unicode’s 'Zs' (Separator, space) character category—in addition to its 'Wspace' key having the value 'N'—it’s unlikely that if HN’s code strips leading and trailing whitespace from submitted titles, U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE will be stripped. I guess if that doesn’t work, you could always replace U+0054 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER T with a similar looking lowercase equivalent such as U+0288 LATIN SMALL LETTER T WITH RETROFLEX HOOK³ or even U+1D5CD MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF SMALL T⁴ (that’s assuming you’re fine with some people not being able to view it due to not having a font installed with a glyph for that character)… but I’d avoid misusing the semantic significance of those characters like that. ―――――― ¹ — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overline ² — http://graphemica.com/200B http://graphemica.com/200B ³ — http://graphemica.com/%CA%88 http://graphemica.com/%CA%88 ⁴ — http://graphemica.com/%F0%9D%97%8D http://graphemica.com/%F0%9D%97%8D

arm 11y ago
Side Note: Unlike what Graphemica may have you believe, there are actually more fonts than just DejaVu Sans that contain glyphs for the Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols block. Modern versions of OS X come with STIXGeneral¹ (v1.1.0 on OS X v10.9 at least), and fonts like Symbola² and Everson Mono³ also have glyphs for them. (I love Symbola’s glyphs for the MATHEMATICAL ITALIC characters such as U+1D463 MATHEMATICAL ITALIC SMALL V⁴, while Everson Mono is fantastic if you need a monospaced font for all those characters⁵). ―――――― ¹ — http://stixfonts.org/ http://stixfonts.org/ ² — https://web.archive.org/web/20150625020428/http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/ https://web.archive.org/web/20150625020428/http://users.teil... ³ — http://evertype.com/emono/ http://evertype.com/emono/ ⁴ — http://f.cl.ly/items/2h2p0r1F1h2E1y2o2y0c/Screen%20Shot%202015-09-10%20at%2011.51.55%20AM.png http://f.cl.ly/items/2h2p0r1F1h2E1y2o2y0c/Screen%20Shot%2020... ⁵ — http://evertype.com/emono/emtype.html http://evertype.com/emono/emtype.html