8 ms·

Wikipedia's TLS Cipher stats

60 points by mmastrac 11y ago

jvehent 11y ago
And apparently des-cbc3-sha is still a thing...
- yuhong 11y ago
  Mostly XP by now I think.
  - rockdoe 11y ago
    Correct. For example Mozilla's recommended TLS server settings (which are fairly popular) will result in XP+IE8 (default browser) using TLS_RSA_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA
- cbsmith 11y ago
  Notice how it spikes during work hours and takes the weekend off? ;-)
orf 11y ago
Interesting stats, but oh boy Grafana[1] looks amazing. 1. http://grafana.org/ http://grafana.org/
cbsmith 11y ago
Man, you can tell when people are at home vs. at work...
- polpo 11y ago
  Absolutely. DES-CBC3-SHA = people on IE8 on XP = people at work.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    Funny, I was about to say that was people at home. I haven't used XP at work in years, but still ran it at home up until a couple of months ago (didn't use IE though).
    - cbsmith 11y ago
      Oh no. That's people at work. Notice how there are two days a week where it doesn't rise during the day. We just don't appreciate how slowly many organizations update their "frozen rigid" workstations images.
ipsin 11y ago
Moving to a 14-day view, what accounts for the spike in ecdhe-ecdsa-aes128-gcm-sha256 and ecdhe-ecdsa-aes128-sha? Did these switch to preferred defaults in some major browsers?
- vacri 11y ago
  It's a display problem. The spike appears at 2015-09-08 12:00ish, but is not visible at the same time on the shorter timescale views. Edit: yes, it's aggregating things incorrectly at 14+ days. Some parts of the graph appear to be 'aggregate' (spike), others appear to be 'average' (low points).
alanh 11y ago
The big graph at the top might be better represented as fractions of the whole. The most apparent thing in this graph is its seasonality / cyclic behavior in traffic, but that’s not the most important thing (given this was submitted as “TLS Cipher Stats,” not “traffic spikes”). Essentially, I’m saying the vertical axis should have percent labels instead of raw numbers.
HeXetic 11y ago
This is neat but kinda useless without some written analysis. I am not a crypto expert so the graphs mean little to me.
- justizin 11y ago
  I think your comment eats to the heart of what's been happening of late. You shouldn't need to be a crypto expert to know what Forward Secrecy or ECDHE are, at least. Anyone who might ever configure a webserver should be learning about this stuff.
  - yuhong 11y ago
    I remember https://twitter.com/nestsupport/status/606246459822997505 https://twitter.com/nestsupport/status/606246459822997505 and other similar tweets days after I reported the 768-bit DHE problem to Google security. (affected server was https://transport01-rts10-iad01.transport.home.nest.com https://transport01-rts10-iad01.transport.home.nest.com)
  - acqq 11y ago
    I'm glad that at least you find the graphs obvious, as I have a bunch of questions. What are security pros and cons of using or not using GCM? And which browser uses which settings of these displayed by default? How can we interpret the percentages? What are the percentages anyway? It's hard to see them from all these graphs. Actually, I don't care about the peak-hour times when I just need to know the percentages. And in which time zone is the time scale at all? Thanks in advance.
    - kpcyrd 11y ago
      disclaimer: no crypto expert. There's a concept of authenticated encryption, so your connection isn't just confident, you're also making sure nobody tampered with the content. There are multiple ways to assure that. There is a RFC for EtM in TLS: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7366 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7366 This document describes a means of negotiating the use of the encrypt-then-MAC security mechanism in place of the existing MAC- then-encrypt mechanism in Transport Layer Security (TLS) and Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS). The MAC-then-encrypt mechanism has been the subject of a number of security vulnerabilities over a period of many years. That also describes MtE. GCM in itself is already authenticated so it skirts the migration issue.
firloop 11y ago
More of these stats here: https://grafana.wikimedia.org/#/dashboard/db/home https://grafana.wikimedia.org/#/dashboard/db/home

60 points by mmastrac 11y ago

jvehent 11y ago

And apparently des-cbc3-sha is still a thing...

yuhong 11y ago
Mostly XP by now I think.
- rockdoe 11y ago
  Correct. For example Mozilla's recommended TLS server settings (which are fairly popular) will result in XP+IE8 (default browser) using TLS_RSA_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA
cbsmith 11y ago
Notice how it spikes during work hours and takes the weekend off? ;-)

orf 11y ago

Interesting stats, but oh boy Grafana[1] looks amazing. 1. http://grafana.org/ http://grafana.org/

cbsmith 11y ago

Man, you can tell when people are at home vs. at work...

polpo 11y ago
Absolutely. DES-CBC3-SHA = people on IE8 on XP = people at work.
- ams6110 11y ago
  Funny, I was about to say that was people at home. I haven't used XP at work in years, but still ran it at home up until a couple of months ago (didn't use IE though).
  - cbsmith 11y ago
    Oh no. That's people at work. Notice how there are two days a week where it doesn't rise during the day. We just don't appreciate how slowly many organizations update their "frozen rigid" workstations images.

ipsin 11y ago

Moving to a 14-day view, what accounts for the spike in ecdhe-ecdsa-aes128-gcm-sha256 and ecdhe-ecdsa-aes128-sha? Did these switch to preferred defaults in some major browsers?

vacri 11y ago
It's a display problem. The spike appears at 2015-09-08 12:00ish, but is not visible at the same time on the shorter timescale views. Edit: yes, it's aggregating things incorrectly at 14+ days. Some parts of the graph appear to be 'aggregate' (spike), others appear to be 'average' (low points).

alanh 11y ago

The big graph at the top might be better represented as fractions of the whole. The most apparent thing in this graph is its seasonality / cyclic behavior in traffic, but that’s not the most important thing (given this was submitted as “TLS Cipher Stats,” not “traffic spikes”). Essentially, I’m saying the vertical axis should have percent labels instead of raw numbers.

HeXetic 11y ago

This is neat but kinda useless without some written analysis. I am not a crypto expert so the graphs mean little to me.

justizin 11y ago
I think your comment eats to the heart of what's been happening of late. You shouldn't need to be a crypto expert to know what Forward Secrecy or ECDHE are, at least. Anyone who might ever configure a webserver should be learning about this stuff.
- yuhong 11y ago
  I remember https://twitter.com/nestsupport/status/606246459822997505 https://twitter.com/nestsupport/status/606246459822997505 and other similar tweets days after I reported the 768-bit DHE problem to Google security. (affected server was https://transport01-rts10-iad01.transport.home.nest.com https://transport01-rts10-iad01.transport.home.nest.com)
- acqq 11y ago
  I'm glad that at least you find the graphs obvious, as I have a bunch of questions. What are security pros and cons of using or not using GCM? And which browser uses which settings of these displayed by default? How can we interpret the percentages? What are the percentages anyway? It's hard to see them from all these graphs. Actually, I don't care about the peak-hour times when I just need to know the percentages. And in which time zone is the time scale at all? Thanks in advance.
  - kpcyrd 11y ago
    disclaimer: no crypto expert. There's a concept of authenticated encryption, so your connection isn't just confident, you're also making sure nobody tampered with the content. There are multiple ways to assure that. There is a RFC for EtM in TLS: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7366 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7366 This document describes a means of negotiating the use of the encrypt-then-MAC security mechanism in place of the existing MAC- then-encrypt mechanism in Transport Layer Security (TLS) and Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS). The MAC-then-encrypt mechanism has been the subject of a number of security vulnerabilities over a period of many years. That also describes MtE. GCM in itself is already authenticated so it skirts the migration issue.

firloop 11y ago

More of these stats here: https://grafana.wikimedia.org/#/dashboard/db/home https://grafana.wikimedia.org/#/dashboard/db/home