11 ms·

I really don't give a shit who is copying who. It's technology; we're all building on the backs of inventions created by other people. The important thing to me

I really don't give a shit who is copying who. It's technology; we're all building on the backs of inventions created by other people. The important thing to me is who does it the best, not who does it first. The iPod was nowhere near the first mp3 player, it was just the best one. The iPad wasn't close to the first tablet. Will it be the best tablet? I don't know, but whether or not the Surface had a keyboard first won't be the deciding factor. Every company is incorporating an absurd number of innovations pioneered by other people. When it comes to hardware, I just want to love using the device.

notNow 11y ago
So what's with all this silly frivolous litigation by Apple over "swipe to unlock" and "rounded corners" if it's OK to copy or steal from each other?
- austenallred 11y ago
  I don't speak for Apple. I think those are bullshit.
  - comex 11y ago
    They are also mostly over.
- mikeyouse 11y ago
  When the litigation attorney for Samsung can't tell the difference between the two devices in open court, they might have gone a little too far in copying the iPad's design.. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/14/us-apple-samsung-lawsuit-idUSTRE79C79C20111014 http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/14/us-apple-samsung-l...
  - spacehome 11y ago
    From that article: > Koh frequently remarked on the similarity between each company's tablets. At one point during the hearing, she held one black glass tablet in each hand above her head, and asked Sullivan if she could identify which company produced which. > "Not at this distance your honor," said Sullivan, who stood at a podium roughly ten feet away. I get what you're saying, but they were asked to tell the difference over an unspecified distance.
    - notNow 11y ago
      Since the companies adopted the slab form factor for the devices. all smartphone and tablets look the same esp. from the front. I don't see this argument holding water and it seems to me that my interlocutor is comfortable with Apple stealing/copying other people's work but when they do to Apple it's all hell breaks loose, double standards maybe?
kailuowang 11y ago
It's not the copying that worries people, it's the lack of not-coping, i.e. innovations. iPod is not the first mp3 player, iPhone is not the first smart phone, but they were packed with innovative ideas that stood them out. We see less and less such ideas from Apple. Their execution/quality control is still top notch though, but other companies are catching up.
- dasil003 11y ago
  The problem is that after a string of successes like iMac, iPod, iTunes, iPhone, there is no way to out-do that. There is no market so ripe for disruption that plays to Apple's strengths the way that the iPhone setup. That's why the iPad is so disappointing to analysts and why nothing Apple does is that impressive now. There is no opportunity for the next iPhone-level success in the market today. It's out there somewhere in the future, but everyone carrying around a $700 pocket computer is a game changer of a magnitude that can only be approximated by physical implants. It certainly is not approached by any imaginable Watch or Google Glass type of device.
  - anjc 11y ago
    If Apple had made the Surface Pro (which hasn't existed for very long) before Microsoft then it would have been the next in that line of major innovations. They didn't, because of a lack of foresight, but the opportunity to create it was readily available.
    - gress 11y ago
      The surface pro is a failure. Apple didn't make a pro tablet earlier because they understood the correct time to introduce such a product.
      - anjc 11y ago
        By what metrics is it a failure? Because when I last looked at Microsoft's financial statements, their revenue was up due to the Surface (Profit was down for unrelated reasons). I'm assuming you haven't used a Surface Pro but you can mark my words now, Apple will release a direct copy of the Surface within 3 years. The iPad Pro is a glorified iPad and will be utterly unusable for doing anything professional, so it's not a copy at this stage.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
bjacobel 11y ago
The really galling part is the total refusal to admit they're not doing anything innovative. "There has never been another product like the iPad Pro before" was a real quote from today's presentation, and is a complete falsehood.
- IBM 11y ago
  I literally laughed out loud at this comment. HN is always predictable.
  - ossreality 11y ago
    Why? Do you enjoy being an ass?
- mbreese 11y ago
  There has never been a product like it before. No one else has ever made an iOS tablet like it. :) It's an admittedly nuanced statement, but not an outright falsehood. I don't think anyone in that room took it for anything else - they've all seen the Samsung and Microsoft tablets that inspired the Pro. Just like they were inspired by the original iPad, which was inspired by... which was inspired by... etc...
  - tyrust 11y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie#Lying_by_omission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie#Lying_by_omission >I don't think anyone in that room took it for anything else - they've all seen the Samsung and Microsoft tablets that inspired the Pro. Perhaps that's true for a room of tech experts and media. As for the thousands of common consumers watching at home, they may not draw the same conclusions.
    - gress 11y ago
      You do realize that the iPad was the first mass market multi-touch tablet, and that the Samsung and Microsoft tablets were introduced as a response to its success?
craigvn 11y ago
But the iPod, iPhone & iPad were much better than the incumbents. iPad Pro is not.
- acqq 11y ago
  To you. It looks better to me. It depends what you expect and need. But I'll have to try it to claim something explicitly.
- coldtea 11y ago
  Have tried it?
- m_mueller 11y ago
  Display size, resolution and performance in a passively cooled device are things that seem to differentiate it from competitors. IMO these are significant.
  - acqq 11y ago
    Yes, to compare, Surface Pro 3 still has the fan(!) but even so twice as little pixels. Surface 3 Pro: 12.0 inches (30 cm) 2160x1440 (216 ppi) = 3 M pixels and the noisy fan iPad Pro: 12.9-inch 2732-by-2048 resolution at 264 pixels per inch (ppi) = 5.5 M pixels (!) and no fan
    - m_mueller 11y ago
      Also let's not forget the better aspect ratio of the iPad - this has always been my biggest gripe with the Surface besides the IMO terrible UX of Win8. Win10 could become a much better deal if they can pull off Desktop / Touch UI integration properly, so far there are still many edge cases to fix from what I hear. On the other hand, as long as we don't know how good the Apple pencil is for writing (e.g. palm recognition), it's quite unclear how well suited the iPad Pro really is. A year from now the Pro tablet market will look very competitive I think, but for now it's still too much of a toy for my taste.
      - deleted 11y ago

notNow 11y ago

So what's with all this silly frivolous litigation by Apple over "swipe to unlock" and "rounded corners" if it's OK to copy or steal from each other?

austenallred 11y ago
I don't speak for Apple. I think those are bullshit.
- comex 11y ago
  They are also mostly over.
mikeyouse 11y ago
When the litigation attorney for Samsung can't tell the difference between the two devices in open court, they might have gone a little too far in copying the iPad's design.. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/14/us-apple-samsung-lawsuit-idUSTRE79C79C20111014 http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/14/us-apple-samsung-l...
- spacehome 11y ago
  From that article: > Koh frequently remarked on the similarity between each company's tablets. At one point during the hearing, she held one black glass tablet in each hand above her head, and asked Sullivan if she could identify which company produced which. > "Not at this distance your honor," said Sullivan, who stood at a podium roughly ten feet away. I get what you're saying, but they were asked to tell the difference over an unspecified distance.
  - notNow 11y ago
    Since the companies adopted the slab form factor for the devices. all smartphone and tablets look the same esp. from the front. I don't see this argument holding water and it seems to me that my interlocutor is comfortable with Apple stealing/copying other people's work but when they do to Apple it's all hell breaks loose, double standards maybe?

kailuowang 11y ago

It's not the copying that worries people, it's the lack of not-coping, i.e. innovations. iPod is not the first mp3 player, iPhone is not the first smart phone, but they were packed with innovative ideas that stood them out. We see less and less such ideas from Apple. Their execution/quality control is still top notch though, but other companies are catching up.

dasil003 11y ago
The problem is that after a string of successes like iMac, iPod, iTunes, iPhone, there is no way to out-do that. There is no market so ripe for disruption that plays to Apple's strengths the way that the iPhone setup. That's why the iPad is so disappointing to analysts and why nothing Apple does is that impressive now. There is no opportunity for the next iPhone-level success in the market today. It's out there somewhere in the future, but everyone carrying around a $700 pocket computer is a game changer of a magnitude that can only be approximated by physical implants. It certainly is not approached by any imaginable Watch or Google Glass type of device.
- anjc 11y ago
  If Apple had made the Surface Pro (which hasn't existed for very long) before Microsoft then it would have been the next in that line of major innovations. They didn't, because of a lack of foresight, but the opportunity to create it was readily available.
  - gress 11y ago
    The surface pro is a failure. Apple didn't make a pro tablet earlier because they understood the correct time to introduce such a product.
    - anjc 11y ago
      By what metrics is it a failure? Because when I last looked at Microsoft's financial statements, their revenue was up due to the Surface (Profit was down for unrelated reasons). I'm assuming you haven't used a Surface Pro but you can mark my words now, Apple will release a direct copy of the Surface within 3 years. The iPad Pro is a glorified iPad and will be utterly unusable for doing anything professional, so it's not a copy at this stage.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

bjacobel 11y ago

The really galling part is the total refusal to admit they're not doing anything innovative. "There has never been another product like the iPad Pro before" was a real quote from today's presentation, and is a complete falsehood.

IBM 11y ago
I literally laughed out loud at this comment. HN is always predictable.
- ossreality 11y ago
  Why? Do you enjoy being an ass?
mbreese 11y ago
There has never been a product like it before. No one else has ever made an iOS tablet like it. :) It's an admittedly nuanced statement, but not an outright falsehood. I don't think anyone in that room took it for anything else - they've all seen the Samsung and Microsoft tablets that inspired the Pro. Just like they were inspired by the original iPad, which was inspired by... which was inspired by... etc...
- tyrust 11y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie#Lying_by_omission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie#Lying_by_omission >I don't think anyone in that room took it for anything else - they've all seen the Samsung and Microsoft tablets that inspired the Pro. Perhaps that's true for a room of tech experts and media. As for the thousands of common consumers watching at home, they may not draw the same conclusions.
  - gress 11y ago
    You do realize that the iPad was the first mass market multi-touch tablet, and that the Samsung and Microsoft tablets were introduced as a response to its success?

craigvn 11y ago

But the iPod, iPhone & iPad were much better than the incumbents. iPad Pro is not.

acqq 11y ago
To you. It looks better to me. It depends what you expect and need. But I'll have to try it to claim something explicitly.
coldtea 11y ago
Have tried it?
m_mueller 11y ago
Display size, resolution and performance in a passively cooled device are things that seem to differentiate it from competitors. IMO these are significant.
- acqq 11y ago
  Yes, to compare, Surface Pro 3 still has the fan(!) but even so twice as little pixels. Surface 3 Pro: 12.0 inches (30 cm) 2160x1440 (216 ppi) = 3 M pixels and the noisy fan iPad Pro: 12.9-inch 2732-by-2048 resolution at 264 pixels per inch (ppi) = 5.5 M pixels (!) and no fan
  - m_mueller 11y ago
    Also let's not forget the better aspect ratio of the iPad - this has always been my biggest gripe with the Surface besides the IMO terrible UX of Win8. Win10 could become a much better deal if they can pull off Desktop / Touch UI integration properly, so far there are still many edge cases to fix from what I hear. On the other hand, as long as we don't know how good the Apple pencil is for writing (e.g. palm recognition), it's quite unclear how well suited the iPad Pro really is. A year from now the Pro tablet market will look very competitive I think, but for now it's still too much of a toy for my taste.
    - deleted 11y ago