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This subject is a huge can of worms. On the one hand you'll have members of a largely-male audience say that there should be more women in CS and that the indu
by daniel-cussen 19y ago
This subject is a huge can of worms.
On the one hand you'll have members of a largely-male audience say that there should be more women in CS and that the industry is extremely sexist. They'll say women are wonderful.
Then you have the people who agree and say women are great and sexually attractive.
You have the people who complains at this objectification and say that it's people like these that are responsible for gross gender inequalities.
Then you have the people who point at IQ research.
Then you have people that question the validity and conclusions of the research.
You then have extreme self-righteousness. Then there's blatant sexism.
Then someone mentions Carla Fiorina as a good example, but someone says she didn't deserve her success.
You get people trying really hard to put a finger on why they think men are better hackers without sounding like bigots. They can lie on either sides of the spectrum of intellectual honesty. When scientific studies are mentioned, they can be rationalizations of bigotry or attempts at honesty and open-mindedness.
I hope I didn't overrepresent the point of view of any of the many sides of the argument. I've looked over this post and alternated the order of the points of view in the sentences and paragraphs above. However, I feel really weird about this discussion. I suspect that no matter how hard I try to talk about these issues without taking a stand with regard to politically incorrect subjects, I'm going to look like an asshole if I don't ultimately rule in favor of the politically correct viewpoint. But if you go so far as lying about your viewpoints in order to look politically correct, you're a bullshitter, and no less of a bigot. On the other hand, being too concerned about the dangers of political correctness might actually make me more prejudiced. What worries me is that there might not even be a safe zone between being a bullshitter and being a bigot. It might be impossible to add to this topic without being either a bullshitter, a bigot, or a little of both. But then, every person with an opinion on the subject would be an asshole in some shape or form, and that doesn't seem reasonable. There should be a safe zone. Of course, if you believed every politically correct statement, and you expressed those views, you'd be fine. But how common is this? Who can say they're totally unbiased? Should we only let he (or she) who is without sin cast the first stone? If we did things this way, though, guilty parties would avoid getting a stoning they may deserve.
It's a can of worms. There's not a lot you can say without someone going ad hominem on you.
It is not a bad idea to put this kind of question on Hacker News; it is supposed to be an open forum about what things interesting to hackers. But because it is an open forum, try not to wantonly go around chastising other posters.
As a reader, you should know what you're in for when you choose to read this link. People can say whatever they want, and they will. Sometimes they'll be too politically correct, sometimes they won't be politically correct enough. On top of that, there's the bullshit from both sides. You might end up reading something you'll find personally hurtful. But then, this is a forum. People have been asked not to be mean, and for the most part they'll try not to be. But if you don't want to risk being hurt, don't go into the forum.
I didn't write this very well. I apologize. I wound up being pedantic, too. And I said some things that might cost me. But I can't keep rewriting this and make semantic barricades that I can later hide behind. I can't censor myself based on what future employers and people like that might think when they google me.
- yters 19y agoKudos for trying hard to be even handed with a "you can't talk about it" subject. Difficult even on hacker news.
- deleted 19y ago[deleted]
- curi 19y agopeople are talking about it. there are much more difficult subjects.
- yters 19y agoLet's hear them!
- curi 19y agoif i try to give you an example, one of two things will happen: - i will seriously offend you - i won't seriously offend you so either you'll hate me, or think i'm wrong. i don't see how i can win.
- yters 19y agoI don't think I "offend." I seriously can't think of anything that offends me. I might consider you immoral though, say if you thought genocide was a good idea or something. But, I'd do this on principled grounds and explain why. However, many people's profiles are linked to their real selves, so this isn't a non taboo area for them.