4 ms·

The idea could also be extended to domestic homeless etc too

by gloves 11y ago

Mz 11y ago
Years ago, I took a college class on Homelessness and Public Policy and I am currently homeless. A high percentage of homeless people have either serious medical or mental health problems. Many of them (not I) self medicate with alcohol and other drugs, sometimes in preference to the doctor prescribed drugs they are supposed to be on and often with good reason -- I am perfectly okay with them preferring to take drugs with side effects they prefer. But the reality is that many of them are just not stable or healthy and they are potentially dangerous and potentially vulnerable. Tossing them in with a total stranger for a free night's stay has all kinds of disaster written all over it. Homeless individuals are typically people with serious personal problems for which there are no quick fixes. There are many things that can help reduce homelessness. Most of them will not be directed at "helping the homeless" per se. Working on making sure there is sufficient affordable housing is one. Of course, that doesn't feel heroic, but the really good solutions usually do not involve heroics. People looking for heroics are usually looking for an ego boost more than a real solution. It rarely leads to good solutions.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- gloves 11y ago
  Hi Mz, Thank you for replying. I take your points on board and share your reservations. However, I certainly wouldn't like to tar every one with the same brush, regardless of their state of home ownership. Although I don't know your personal situation, I would hope you wouldn't wish to inflict harm on someone who opened their home to you. Hopefully this is an example of how the app could work successfully. But you are right, I equally would not wish to be responsible for anyone abusing the app or eachother. The aim of the app is not to be a hero - it is simply a way to show human emotion to those members of society who are often relegated to sub-human terms and stereotypes. It could be a route to understanding both eachother, and uncovering the root causes of some people's homelessness. As stated in the original description however, the app does treat the symptoms, not the cause, and would therefore not be considered a solution, just temporary respite. I understand and share your concern, perhaps this would be enough to stop the homeless issue being one I could focus on to begin with.
  - Mz 11y ago
    I am a woman on the street. Most homeless people are male (by a very wide margin). I have had people offer me a place to stay, some of them were men who were clearly expecting me to earn my keep on my back. I turned them down. I am mentioning that only to point out that you are guilty of the prejudice you wish to eradicate: You hope I would not wish to harm someone who opened their home to me. You fail to acknowledge the other half of the equation that I mentioned above: That the person offering me a place to stay might desire to take advantage of me in some way and thereby harm me. Your personal prejudice is a significant obstacle to making this viable. It would bias design towards protecting the people opening their home while giving short shrift to the people needing a temporary place to stay. If you cannot overcome that bias and look very objectively at the problem space of protecting all involved parties, I recommend you abandon the idea, whether for refugees or for anyone else.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      I sympathize with the problem, and wish for a solution. That said, its not a symmetrical relationship. One party is pressed into the predicament unwillingly: the refugee or homeless person. Their population can be considered uniform i.e. the presence of a predator is no different than in the general population. The folks offering their home as a refuge, volunteer. Their population may be laced with predators, who could find this relationship to be fertile ground for abuse opportunities. This could increase the risk to the refuge-seeker by one or two orders of magnitude. SO the only ones risking anything above meeting any random new person, is the refugee. This is no fault of all the good people who enter this relationship with open heart and open arms. Its just an unfortunate fact of game theory.
      - Mz 11y ago
        I really do not understand what your point is and I fear that it would be a long, long hashing out process to get my point across, one I am not keen to enter into for a variety of reasons, chief of which is that it sounds like you are justifying the bias against homeless and refugees, so this is likely to be an uphill battle that makes me look bad no matter how I handle it. Suffice it to say I stand by the assertion I have already made at least twice: Dealing with security concerns of all involved parties will be a make-or-break detail for such a project. The specific concerns each side has may differ, but you need to look at making sure everyone is equally protected or this has disaster written all over it.

The idea could also be extended to domestic homeless etc too

by gloves 11y ago

The idea could also be extended to domestic homeless etc too

Mz 11y ago

Years ago, I took a college class on Homelessness and Public Policy and I am currently homeless. A high percentage of homeless people have either serious medical or mental health problems. Many of them (not I) self medicate with alcohol and other drugs, sometimes in preference to the doctor prescribed drugs they are supposed to be on and often with good reason -- I am perfectly okay with them preferring to take drugs with side effects they prefer. But the reality is that many of them are just not stable or healthy and they are potentially dangerous and potentially vulnerable. Tossing them in with a total stranger for a free night's stay has all kinds of disaster written all over it. Homeless individuals are typically people with serious personal problems for which there are no quick fixes. There are many things that can help reduce homelessness. Most of them will not be directed at "helping the homeless" per se. Working on making sure there is sufficient affordable housing is one. Of course, that doesn't feel heroic, but the really good solutions usually do not involve heroics. People looking for heroics are usually looking for an ego boost more than a real solution. It rarely leads to good solutions.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
gloves 11y ago
Hi Mz, Thank you for replying. I take your points on board and share your reservations. However, I certainly wouldn't like to tar every one with the same brush, regardless of their state of home ownership. Although I don't know your personal situation, I would hope you wouldn't wish to inflict harm on someone who opened their home to you. Hopefully this is an example of how the app could work successfully. But you are right, I equally would not wish to be responsible for anyone abusing the app or eachother. The aim of the app is not to be a hero - it is simply a way to show human emotion to those members of society who are often relegated to sub-human terms and stereotypes. It could be a route to understanding both eachother, and uncovering the root causes of some people's homelessness. As stated in the original description however, the app does treat the symptoms, not the cause, and would therefore not be considered a solution, just temporary respite. I understand and share your concern, perhaps this would be enough to stop the homeless issue being one I could focus on to begin with.
- Mz 11y ago
  I am a woman on the street. Most homeless people are male (by a very wide margin). I have had people offer me a place to stay, some of them were men who were clearly expecting me to earn my keep on my back. I turned them down. I am mentioning that only to point out that you are guilty of the prejudice you wish to eradicate: You hope I would not wish to harm someone who opened their home to me. You fail to acknowledge the other half of the equation that I mentioned above: That the person offering me a place to stay might desire to take advantage of me in some way and thereby harm me. Your personal prejudice is a significant obstacle to making this viable. It would bias design towards protecting the people opening their home while giving short shrift to the people needing a temporary place to stay. If you cannot overcome that bias and look very objectively at the problem space of protecting all involved parties, I recommend you abandon the idea, whether for refugees or for anyone else.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    I sympathize with the problem, and wish for a solution. That said, its not a symmetrical relationship. One party is pressed into the predicament unwillingly: the refugee or homeless person. Their population can be considered uniform i.e. the presence of a predator is no different than in the general population. The folks offering their home as a refuge, volunteer. Their population may be laced with predators, who could find this relationship to be fertile ground for abuse opportunities. This could increase the risk to the refuge-seeker by one or two orders of magnitude. SO the only ones risking anything above meeting any random new person, is the refugee. This is no fault of all the good people who enter this relationship with open heart and open arms. Its just an unfortunate fact of game theory.
    - Mz 11y ago
      I really do not understand what your point is and I fear that it would be a long, long hashing out process to get my point across, one I am not keen to enter into for a variety of reasons, chief of which is that it sounds like you are justifying the bias against homeless and refugees, so this is likely to be an uphill battle that makes me look bad no matter how I handle it. Suffice it to say I stand by the assertion I have already made at least twice: Dealing with security concerns of all involved parties will be a make-or-break detail for such a project. The specific concerns each side has may differ, but you need to look at making sure everyone is equally protected or this has disaster written all over it.