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Harvard waives fees altogether for families making less than $65,000. More than 60% of US households have income less than that+, yet only 20% of Harvard's unde

Harvard waives fees altogether for families making less than $65,000. More than 60% of US households have income less than that+, yet only 20% of Harvard's undergraduate class pays no fees. From this we reasonably say that Harvard is mostly a school for rich kids, despite its generosity to those non-rich kids it lets in. In this way it is similar to elite private high schools in NYC or boarding schools in New England (both of which still send many students). +This in not quite the correct referent class, as you'd want households with an 18 year old rather than all households. Still I'd be suprised if it was too far off.

rubidium 11y ago
20% of Harvard's undergraduate class pays no fees. That's great! >300 people a year get to attend Harvard and pay no fees. Why complain about this?
chrisBob 11y ago
>yet only 20% of Harvard's undergraduate class pays no fees Unfortunately I think this is mostly an issue of exposure. It is probably harder for most Andover Academy students to get into an Ivy than it would be for a similar student from a rural school, but most rural students don't know that. If the guidance counselors at high schools educated their students about their options many more of them would likely apply to top tier schools.
- lhc- 11y ago
  Why would it be harder for a student from an elite boarding school to get into an Ivy than someone from a rural school? I would say the opposite, in no small part based on the evidence that at least supports a strong correlation.
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    These schools value variety (or diversity, if you prefer) in their classes. They could fill up entirely with valedictorians from NYC, or with rowers from New England boarding schools, or with some other well-represented population, if they so chose, because every single member of those populations applies to one or more Ivies. Because they get very few applicants from farming communities, the rural South, Indian reservations, etc., those who do apply might get in with less impressive SAT scores or "extracurricular activities" than well-represented groups. If this is news to you, I suspect you haven't thought much about these issues.
    - bradleyjg 11y ago
      It's a little disingenuous to say it's easier though. Sure if you had someone with the same SAT scores, fencing prowess, IB classes, who also spent the summer prior to her senior year interning at the ACLU and was born and raised on Indian reservation in South Dakota she'd have a much easier time getting into Harvard than a wealthy student with a similar record who went to Phillips Exeter. But to put it mildly it would be far more difficult to build such a record for the former than the latter.
      - justinlardinois 11y ago
        > fencing prowess I'm admittedly unfamiliar with Ivy League culture. What does fencing have to do with your application?
        bradleyjg 11y ago
        The Ivy League has fencing as a D1 sport (except for men's fencing at Cornell which is club). Those eight schools make up about a third of the entire NCAA division. Under the rule of the league they can't give out athletic scholarships, but they can, and do, recruit athletes and subject to a less rigorous admissions process.
      - jessaustin 11y ago
        OP said "...than it would be for a similar student from a rural school", and you and I both responded to that. We're not talking about average students, in either context. I don't think Harvard or anybody would care to see IB, interning, or posh sports on the app from South Dakota so long as they see a dedicated, talented student who will thrive at university and challenge her classmates.
the_hangman 11y ago
> Harvard waives fees altogether for families making less than $65,000. More than 60% of US households have income less than that+, yet only 20% of Harvard's undergraduate class pays no fees. From this we reasonably say that Harvard is mostly a school for rich kids, despite its generosity to those non-rich kids it lets in. This argument is backwards. Harvard has a need-blind admission policy, which means that admissions decisions are judged solely on merits. The reason that kids from the > 60% of households with incomes below that threshold don't go to Harvard isn't because of Harvard's admission policies, it's because the college preparatory system heavily favors families with higher wealth.
- bradleyjg 11y ago
  Having a need blind admission policy doesn't mean that admission decisions are judged solely on the merits. For example, what is meritorious about having a parent that went to Harvard?

rubidium 11y ago

20% of Harvard's undergraduate class pays no fees. That's great! >300 people a year get to attend Harvard and pay no fees. Why complain about this?

chrisBob 11y ago

>yet only 20% of Harvard's undergraduate class pays no fees Unfortunately I think this is mostly an issue of exposure. It is probably harder for most Andover Academy students to get into an Ivy than it would be for a similar student from a rural school, but most rural students don't know that. If the guidance counselors at high schools educated their students about their options many more of them would likely apply to top tier schools.

lhc- 11y ago
Why would it be harder for a student from an elite boarding school to get into an Ivy than someone from a rural school? I would say the opposite, in no small part based on the evidence that at least supports a strong correlation.
- jessaustin 11y ago
  These schools value variety (or diversity, if you prefer) in their classes. They could fill up entirely with valedictorians from NYC, or with rowers from New England boarding schools, or with some other well-represented population, if they so chose, because every single member of those populations applies to one or more Ivies. Because they get very few applicants from farming communities, the rural South, Indian reservations, etc., those who do apply might get in with less impressive SAT scores or "extracurricular activities" than well-represented groups. If this is news to you, I suspect you haven't thought much about these issues.
  - bradleyjg 11y ago
    It's a little disingenuous to say it's easier though. Sure if you had someone with the same SAT scores, fencing prowess, IB classes, who also spent the summer prior to her senior year interning at the ACLU and was born and raised on Indian reservation in South Dakota she'd have a much easier time getting into Harvard than a wealthy student with a similar record who went to Phillips Exeter. But to put it mildly it would be far more difficult to build such a record for the former than the latter.
    - justinlardinois 11y ago
      > fencing prowess I'm admittedly unfamiliar with Ivy League culture. What does fencing have to do with your application?
      - bradleyjg 11y ago
        The Ivy League has fencing as a D1 sport (except for men's fencing at Cornell which is club). Those eight schools make up about a third of the entire NCAA division. Under the rule of the league they can't give out athletic scholarships, but they can, and do, recruit athletes and subject to a less rigorous admissions process.
    - jessaustin 11y ago
      OP said "...than it would be for a similar student from a rural school", and you and I both responded to that. We're not talking about average students, in either context. I don't think Harvard or anybody would care to see IB, interning, or posh sports on the app from South Dakota so long as they see a dedicated, talented student who will thrive at university and challenge her classmates.

the_hangman 11y ago

> Harvard waives fees altogether for families making less than $65,000. More than 60% of US households have income less than that+, yet only 20% of Harvard's undergraduate class pays no fees. From this we reasonably say that Harvard is mostly a school for rich kids, despite its generosity to those non-rich kids it lets in. This argument is backwards. Harvard has a need-blind admission policy, which means that admissions decisions are judged solely on merits. The reason that kids from the > 60% of households with incomes below that threshold don't go to Harvard isn't because of Harvard's admission policies, it's because the college preparatory system heavily favors families with higher wealth.

bradleyjg 11y ago
Having a need blind admission policy doesn't mean that admission decisions are judged solely on the merits. For example, what is meritorious about having a parent that went to Harvard?