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The USA abandoned the Civil Service Exam in the 70s and it's mostly since that time the popular understanding has developed that government agencies are invaria

The USA abandoned the Civil Service Exam in the 70s and it's mostly since that time the popular understanding has developed that government agencies are invariably slow, wasteful, and ineffectual.

logfromblammo 11y ago
Are you fallaciously implying post hoc, ergo propter hoc? I can think of a lot of possible causes for that public perception that are more plausible, and have nothing to do with the ability of applicants to perform well on a written examination. I also have a sneaking suspicion that the raw statistical analysis of such a test from the U.S. in 1975 would show a lot of intrinsic racial, gender, political, and age biases. Beyond that, many government jobs in the U.S. still have a qualifying exam. Even elementary school janitors have to take them. I have actually taken that particular test. (Long story.) The questions cover such subjects as how to properly employ a push broom, identifying cleaning chemicals, and what to do when a kid pukes in the hallway. So what happens is that your exam score establishes a baseline ranking. Then your preference points are added for race, gender, ethnicity, disability, veteranosity, and any additional job-relevant questions like years of experience or typing speed. So if you're a white, non-veteran, able-bodied, Anglo male with no prior experience that scores 100% on the exam, you may be only #37 on the ordered-strictly-by-government-regulations interview list. The hiring agency would have to reject 36 other applicants and show good cause for doing so before even calling you. Greater familiarity with that process bred a whole lot of contempt. Let's just say that I shudder to think of what government might have been like now had the federal government doubled down on exams in the 70s instead of abandoning them.
- a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
  > I also have a sneaking suspicion that the raw statistical analysis of such a test from the U.S. in 1975 would show a lot of intrinsic racial, gender, political, and age biases. Of course. Public institutions in America are a total joke now because they're riddled with patronage posts and affirmative action hires. Any test that actually works is going to be "racist" and "sexist."
  - logfromblammo 11y ago
    Did you hear about how some police departments reject applicants that score too well on their entrance exams? This practice was not only tested in court, but upheld by the 2nd Circuit. You can literally be too smart to get hired as a cop. http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836 http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/sto... And we at HN think that the hiring process for software professionals is broken. Imagine if you would be rejected from further consideration if you answered the brainteaser question correctly.

The USA abandoned the Civil Service Exam in the 70s and it's mostly since that time the popular understanding has developed that government agencies are invariably slow, wasteful, and ineffectual.

logfromblammo 11y ago

Are you fallaciously implying post hoc, ergo propter hoc? I can think of a lot of possible causes for that public perception that are more plausible, and have nothing to do with the ability of applicants to perform well on a written examination. I also have a sneaking suspicion that the raw statistical analysis of such a test from the U.S. in 1975 would show a lot of intrinsic racial, gender, political, and age biases. Beyond that, many government jobs in the U.S. still have a qualifying exam. Even elementary school janitors have to take them. I have actually taken that particular test. (Long story.) The questions cover such subjects as how to properly employ a push broom, identifying cleaning chemicals, and what to do when a kid pukes in the hallway. So what happens is that your exam score establishes a baseline ranking. Then your preference points are added for race, gender, ethnicity, disability, veteranosity, and any additional job-relevant questions like years of experience or typing speed. So if you're a white, non-veteran, able-bodied, Anglo male with no prior experience that scores 100% on the exam, you may be only #37 on the ordered-strictly-by-government-regulations interview list. The hiring agency would have to reject 36 other applicants and show good cause for doing so before even calling you. Greater familiarity with that process bred a whole lot of contempt. Let's just say that I shudder to think of what government might have been like now had the federal government doubled down on exams in the 70s instead of abandoning them.

a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
> I also have a sneaking suspicion that the raw statistical analysis of such a test from the U.S. in 1975 would show a lot of intrinsic racial, gender, political, and age biases. Of course. Public institutions in America are a total joke now because they're riddled with patronage posts and affirmative action hires. Any test that actually works is going to be "racist" and "sexist."
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  Did you hear about how some police departments reject applicants that score too well on their entrance exams? This practice was not only tested in court, but upheld by the 2nd Circuit. You can literally be too smart to get hired as a cop. http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836 http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/sto... And we at HN think that the hiring process for software professionals is broken. Imagine if you would be rejected from further consideration if you answered the brainteaser question correctly.