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Hey, thanks for acknowledging the idea. May I point you to the conditionals in my post implying the possibility of a honest debate? Instead of aggressively cari

Hey, thanks for acknowledging the idea. May I point you to the conditionals in my post implying the possibility of a honest debate? Instead of aggressively caricaturing and strawman-ing me, could you try to discuss it? - Where do you see the slightest tentative to put "myself in a good position" ? I'm making a proposal and seeing what other members of this community think about it. - Bravo for implying I'm saying "fuck to content creators" . Because, yes, I have both Patreon and Flattr accounts donating to a few of them. But like said elsewhere in this thread by another commenter, this fails to compensate "one-off websites" and am discussing what a solution could look like without the drawbacks of advertising. - So because of some technicality (ISPs not agreeing) we are prohibited from even talking about changing anything?! Applause, nice approach to problem solving.

corobo 11y ago
My apologies. That reply had been made with outside influence on the grump levels. Not saying that to excuse, just to explain. I'll leave the comment there for the sake of others being able to follow where this ended up but you are correct and to be frank it was a pretty terrible post on my part. The post only really needed the troubles of implementing it at the ISP level, if anything.
- ronjouch 11y ago
  No problem, and thanks for the frank follow-up. -- Regarding the ISP part, I fully agree it would be tough to implement; I was throwing this idea because I had never seen it being expressed and wanted to see if commenters could point to related "prior art" / similar experiments in some parts of the world. Mainly, my own starting point for the idea is France's (and maybe other countries?) interrupted path to a "Global License" for music [1]. The idea, expressed as a law proposal in 2005 at a time of majors freaking out about P2P, was to (fr.wikipedia translation mine) "Authorize non-commercial access and sharing of cultural content, in exchange for a proportional artists remuneration." It was interrupted in 2009 in favor of a repressive fine system (HADOPI, [2]). But if such a very much pie-in-the-sky idea can make its way to a law proposal (with assorted technical analysis) somewhere in the world, maybe something similar is worth discussing for ads. [1] (french) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licence_globale https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licence_globale [2] (english) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law
  - corobo 11y ago
    Yup a fair point, my initial reply was indeed just shooting down an idea rather than figuring out whether it would work and how could it work if not straight up (criticism vs constructive criticism). I'd be interested in seeing an ISP-level funding scheme, and moreso if enough would be willing to use it that it could feasibly replace adverts. I'll have a proper look into those links too, thank you Thinking further (or.. at all) the models that flattr but more successfully patreon provide do seem to work and would appear to be the best model if the community you're providing for is willing to use such a system - and they are, in many cases. I can think of a podcast or two that rather than use sponsored messages are funded by their community through patreon. In fact I can only imagine they're earning more and in a more stable fashion for doing so I'm not sure if an ISP-level funding source would be feasible on the global scale but that may just be my own limits talking, something that definitely works in replacement of adverts is the product (in this example a podcast) being free but with perks for those that want to support the creator directly. The easiest added extras in this example would be behind the scenes, an additional private podcast, archives of episodes long gone by.

corobo 11y ago

My apologies. That reply had been made with outside influence on the grump levels. Not saying that to excuse, just to explain. I'll leave the comment there for the sake of others being able to follow where this ended up but you are correct and to be frank it was a pretty terrible post on my part. The post only really needed the troubles of implementing it at the ISP level, if anything.

ronjouch 11y ago
No problem, and thanks for the frank follow-up. -- Regarding the ISP part, I fully agree it would be tough to implement; I was throwing this idea because I had never seen it being expressed and wanted to see if commenters could point to related "prior art" / similar experiments in some parts of the world. Mainly, my own starting point for the idea is France's (and maybe other countries?) interrupted path to a "Global License" for music [1]. The idea, expressed as a law proposal in 2005 at a time of majors freaking out about P2P, was to (fr.wikipedia translation mine) "Authorize non-commercial access and sharing of cultural content, in exchange for a proportional artists remuneration." It was interrupted in 2009 in favor of a repressive fine system (HADOPI, [2]). But if such a very much pie-in-the-sky idea can make its way to a law proposal (with assorted technical analysis) somewhere in the world, maybe something similar is worth discussing for ads. [1] (french) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licence_globale https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licence_globale [2] (english) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law
- corobo 11y ago
  Yup a fair point, my initial reply was indeed just shooting down an idea rather than figuring out whether it would work and how could it work if not straight up (criticism vs constructive criticism). I'd be interested in seeing an ISP-level funding scheme, and moreso if enough would be willing to use it that it could feasibly replace adverts. I'll have a proper look into those links too, thank you Thinking further (or.. at all) the models that flattr but more successfully patreon provide do seem to work and would appear to be the best model if the community you're providing for is willing to use such a system - and they are, in many cases. I can think of a podcast or two that rather than use sponsored messages are funded by their community through patreon. In fact I can only imagine they're earning more and in a more stable fashion for doing so I'm not sure if an ISP-level funding source would be feasible on the global scale but that may just be my own limits talking, something that definitely works in replacement of adverts is the product (in this example a podcast) being free but with perks for those that want to support the creator directly. The easiest added extras in this example would be behind the scenes, an additional private podcast, archives of episodes long gone by.