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I'll just add one word to Jordi's sentence: "just give me a way to _conveniently_ give you that money directly". Like you can't ask people to encrypt their emai

I'll just add one word to Jordi's sentence: "just give me a way to _conveniently_ give you that money directly". Like you can't ask people to encrypt their email if it makes their life harder, you can't expect website users to go through repeated hoops for the sake of properly remunerating a website. It's just too much of a hassle, the easy option (installing an ad-blocker) will win. I will neither make the effort to click the "Donate" link on each site I visit, but what if we could dedicate a Flattr/Patreon-like monthly amount to supporting websites? It could be: - Slowly drained during the month, or split at the end of the month in proportion of the visits. - Done by the ISP? It would probably be the least privacy-invasive option, since they are already being trusted with knowing what my usage is. Imagine your ISP usage dashboard greeting you with "You're on a 2MB unlimited ADSL line, for 40 $/month. You are also choosing to pay 10 $/month for proportional website remuneration, which currently will go to these sites: <pie chart showing my money split>. Websites frequently visited but not appearing here might not be part of ProportionalMonetizationPlatform, or be paid apps that you remunerate directly."

corobo 11y ago
Edit: This post is just terrible on my part, leaving it here solely for the fact it has a response below it, but I apologise for it's existence. --- I think I'd rather just let you visit with an ad blocker than try to convince anyone that that idea would work You're effectively trying to take America's tipping system and apply it to your ISP and apply that to the world? Do you know how many ISPs there are in the world? They can barely agree on where to route traffic sometimes much less a system that wouldn't benefit them in any way I think you're proposing the impossible to put yourself in a morally good position. "I'll never view ads because <impossible request>" like the people that claim piracy is fine because they wouldn't have bought the content anyway so nobody loses out. It's just a lie, it'd be more honest to just say "fuck content creators, I'm not watching adverts. Who cares if they can't make money" than this method of remuneration you've come up with
- ronjouch 11y ago
  Hey, thanks for acknowledging the idea. May I point you to the conditionals in my post implying the possibility of a honest debate? Instead of aggressively caricaturing and strawman-ing me, could you try to discuss it? - Where do you see the slightest tentative to put "myself in a good position" ? I'm making a proposal and seeing what other members of this community think about it. - Bravo for implying I'm saying "fuck to content creators" . Because, yes, I have both Patreon and Flattr accounts donating to a few of them. But like said elsewhere in this thread by another commenter, this fails to compensate "one-off websites" and am discussing what a solution could look like without the drawbacks of advertising. - So because of some technicality (ISPs not agreeing) we are prohibited from even talking about changing anything?! Applause, nice approach to problem solving.
  - corobo 11y ago
    My apologies. That reply had been made with outside influence on the grump levels. Not saying that to excuse, just to explain. I'll leave the comment there for the sake of others being able to follow where this ended up but you are correct and to be frank it was a pretty terrible post on my part. The post only really needed the troubles of implementing it at the ISP level, if anything.
    - ronjouch 11y ago
      No problem, and thanks for the frank follow-up. -- Regarding the ISP part, I fully agree it would be tough to implement; I was throwing this idea because I had never seen it being expressed and wanted to see if commenters could point to related "prior art" / similar experiments in some parts of the world. Mainly, my own starting point for the idea is France's (and maybe other countries?) interrupted path to a "Global License" for music [1]. The idea, expressed as a law proposal in 2005 at a time of majors freaking out about P2P, was to (fr.wikipedia translation mine) "Authorize non-commercial access and sharing of cultural content, in exchange for a proportional artists remuneration." It was interrupted in 2009 in favor of a repressive fine system (HADOPI, [2]). But if such a very much pie-in-the-sky idea can make its way to a law proposal (with assorted technical analysis) somewhere in the world, maybe something similar is worth discussing for ads. [1] (french) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licence_globale https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licence_globale [2] (english) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law

corobo 11y ago

Edit: This post is just terrible on my part, leaving it here solely for the fact it has a response below it, but I apologise for it's existence. --- I think I'd rather just let you visit with an ad blocker than try to convince anyone that that idea would work You're effectively trying to take America's tipping system and apply it to your ISP and apply that to the world? Do you know how many ISPs there are in the world? They can barely agree on where to route traffic sometimes much less a system that wouldn't benefit them in any way I think you're proposing the impossible to put yourself in a morally good position. "I'll never view ads because <impossible request>" like the people that claim piracy is fine because they wouldn't have bought the content anyway so nobody loses out. It's just a lie, it'd be more honest to just say "fuck content creators, I'm not watching adverts. Who cares if they can't make money" than this method of remuneration you've come up with

ronjouch 11y ago
Hey, thanks for acknowledging the idea. May I point you to the conditionals in my post implying the possibility of a honest debate? Instead of aggressively caricaturing and strawman-ing me, could you try to discuss it? - Where do you see the slightest tentative to put "myself in a good position" ? I'm making a proposal and seeing what other members of this community think about it. - Bravo for implying I'm saying "fuck to content creators" . Because, yes, I have both Patreon and Flattr accounts donating to a few of them. But like said elsewhere in this thread by another commenter, this fails to compensate "one-off websites" and am discussing what a solution could look like without the drawbacks of advertising. - So because of some technicality (ISPs not agreeing) we are prohibited from even talking about changing anything?! Applause, nice approach to problem solving.
- corobo 11y ago
  My apologies. That reply had been made with outside influence on the grump levels. Not saying that to excuse, just to explain. I'll leave the comment there for the sake of others being able to follow where this ended up but you are correct and to be frank it was a pretty terrible post on my part. The post only really needed the troubles of implementing it at the ISP level, if anything.
  - ronjouch 11y ago
    No problem, and thanks for the frank follow-up. -- Regarding the ISP part, I fully agree it would be tough to implement; I was throwing this idea because I had never seen it being expressed and wanted to see if commenters could point to related "prior art" / similar experiments in some parts of the world. Mainly, my own starting point for the idea is France's (and maybe other countries?) interrupted path to a "Global License" for music [1]. The idea, expressed as a law proposal in 2005 at a time of majors freaking out about P2P, was to (fr.wikipedia translation mine) "Authorize non-commercial access and sharing of cultural content, in exchange for a proportional artists remuneration." It was interrupted in 2009 in favor of a repressive fine system (HADOPI, [2]). But if such a very much pie-in-the-sky idea can make its way to a law proposal (with assorted technical analysis) somewhere in the world, maybe something similar is worth discussing for ads. [1] (french) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licence_globale https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licence_globale [2] (english) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law