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TSA Master Keys
- harkyns_castle 11y agoSeems to still be a lot being done in the name of security theater in the US, and just wasting dollars on the TSA, for what appears to be very little effect. Who's really profiting there? Is it just for the employment of people that otherwise wouldn't have a job? Or are the majority of citizens there really made to feel more secure by having them? I'd have to say some defense contractor is getting a bit fatter off this. Seems like a ridiculous waste of money.
- cryoshon 11y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff#Body_scanners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff#Body_scanners "Michael Chertoff has been an advocate of enhanced technologies, such as full body scanners.[25] His lobbying firm Chertoff Group (founded 2009) represents manufacturers of the scanners.[26][27]" "Michael Chertoff (born November 28, 1953) is an American attorney who was the second United States Secretary of Homeland Security under Presidents George W. Bush and (for one day) Barack Obama, and co-author of the USA PATRIOT Act." It isn't just a defense contractor, it's the former head of the DHS who implemented these policies and gets kickbacks from body scanner use. He set up the nationwide deployment of the scanners, then profited directly. It's corruption to the extreme.
- harkyns_castle 11y agoIt's bizarre it can happen. Surely the wheels have to fall off that out of control cart soon.
- Jtsummers 11y agoYou'd think, but year after year we get stories like this. Sometimes it catches up with people [1], many times it seems they get away with it [2]. The main difference seems to be how much money they're worth, if they're elected or just "regular" employees, and how good their connections are. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darleen_Druyun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darleen_Druyun [2] http://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2015/02/17/the-sham-of-drug-testing-walker-scott-and-political-pandering/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2015/02/17/the-sham-of... - goes into more, but the relevant part is about 2/3 down. Search for "Rick Scott pushed".
- harkyns_castle 11y agoIt sucks to watch corruption and violence win the day. We seem to be seeing it. Where an economy can be based on maintaining a military force in other countries, to maintain the petrodollar and central banks. And a lot of good people losing their lives, brought up in the belief, they're helping freedom. What a mindfuck that is.
- MCRed 11y agoAfter a few years people get acclimated and if you dare to criticize the corrutpion you're seen to be evil. For instance, try telling the average american that the TSA needs to be shut down. They'll think that they're keeping us safe, the same way people think that police keep us safe, and will think that without obamacare we wouldn't have health insurance, in a few years.
- mikeash 11y agoI find the sudden mention of Obamacare rather odd. TSA has done jack all to keep us safe in the decade and a half it's been around. Obamacare, while deeply flawed, has done quite a lot to help people access health care.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- cryoshon 11y agoNaive response on multiple levels. An ad hominem implies that the criticism is superficial or irrelevant to the main issue. Money is the main cause from a realist point of view, not an accessory. Money waiting to be made is the first item in the chain of causation for many (most?) government projects. The outline: problem in government that can be solved -> contractor group identifies problem -> contractor group contacts their lobbyist -> lobbyist lobbies government at right points -> contractor group gets contract to solve problem for far more $ than the problem is worth (usually) -> lobbyist can now find another job for the contractors as soon as they identify another problem. Ask qui bono, ruthlessly. Follow the money from branch to root. Do some research on where the money is ending up, and you'll find who set the process in motion via corruption. On a side note, Americans will never feel safe because there is a pervasive circus of media and behavioral memes which encourage fearfulness and paranoia. Have you ever seen the nightly news? Have you ever talked with a mom? We could be sitting alone in sterile jail cells, and people would still worry that the jail cell being cold might give us pneumonia.
- harkyns_castle 11y agoI'm guessing Brazil.
- Spooky23 11y agoThe upshot of TSA is that because it's a single government organization, it's easy to identify the costs and quality of operations. Pre-TSA, we were wasting the same or more amount of money on private contractors of dubious quality. But you didn't really know how much, as the cost was spread across thousands of airline/airport authorities/municipal government combinations.
- harkyns_castle 11y agoDefinitely a way to find a silver lining hehe. Maybe we're getting better at shining a light on things, and they'll crawl back into the slime over a generation or two.
- grandalf 11y agoAre you sure it was the same amount of money? Before the TSA, airport security agents were very minimally trained and there were no expensive body scanner machines. I would not be surprised if the TSA version of airport security cost 10x the previous version.
- harkyns_castle 11y agoA good point. It seems to me an increase in people annoying you throughout the flying process is only going to have increased costs, coupled with expensive hardware and presumably billions in software too. Speaking for Tasmania, there's a desolate looking guy on the Hobart bomb scanner device every time that flags me over. His face says it all, "I know this is a bullshit job, just submit and it will be over with quickly, I collect a paycheck, you feel bad for a little while."
- Spooky23 11y agoDon't underestimate the cost of bodyshop-style arrangements. The guy fumbling through your luggage may have been making $8/hour, but the billing for it could have easily been 8-15x the salary.
- dragonwriter 11y agoI would be very surprised if the federalized version wasn't much more expensive -- for one thing, because its centralized its a bigger and more profitable target for vendor lobbying for requirements that necessitate the purchase of particular goods and services (whole body scanners, etc.)
- coldpie 11y ago> Seems like a ridiculous waste of money. The people paying for it (US citizens and those who travel into or through the US) would surely see it as a waste. But the people profiting don't, and the people profiting are the same people who make the laws mandating them. I opt out of the naked scanners every time I fly. Just tell the TSA clown trying to herd you into the naked scanner the magic phrase "I'm opting out." After a 5 minute wait, some other clown will come over and molest you, and then you're free to go. I do this as a little protest against a system I see as stupid and illegal. If everybody opted out, the system would get so backed up that they would have to change their policies. I'm doing my part, and I encourage you to do yours next time you fly. (Unless you're not white, in which case you should probably just keep your head down :-/ )
- harkyns_castle 11y agoI'd do it if I have cause to fly into the States again, but I can't help but think its not really going to help much. From my youthful experiences at being a knob, I'd say don't piss off food makers/deliverers, or airline staff. I once annoyed a Qantas security lady, and I noticed it for a fair few trips afterwards. Then again, with wealthy interests controlling the US, I can't really see what will help at this stage. Its a descent into corruption and mess, but I can't judge how quickly it'll crumble.
- pcl 11y agoYou can opt out politely; I do it all the time. Recently, it's been interesting, since I dislocated my shoulder and can't yet lift my arm as high as they want me to. But it still seems to work out.
- drjesusphd 11y agoI do the same. Keep up the good fight!
- pfooti 11y agoI also opt out every time. At one point the FSM came to me in a dream and told me that I shalt not go through a pornoscanner. And who am I to doubt the word of noodle?
- edward 11y agoReminds me of this story: Jail keys changed after TV lapse http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5145026.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5145026.stm
- brk 11y agoI doubt these images really did all that much for people who wanted a set of TSA keys. The locks themselves are widely available and it's easy to reverse engineer a key if you have the lock (especially multiple copies of the lock to destroy and test on). If anything, this just made it easier for casual lazy people to get a set of images for keys they'll never make :)
- Tepix 11y agoSource needed.
- andyjohnson0 11y agoMake a working key from scrap metal by reverse engineering a lock http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-working-key-from-scrap-metal-by-reverse-eng/?ALLSTEPS http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-working-key-from-scra...
- boredinballard 11y agohttp://www.lockwiki.com/index.php/Impressioning http://www.lockwiki.com/index.php/Impressioning
- hyperpape 11y agoIt seems like the real value of the picture was that it made it obvious how insecure the system was.
- gozo 11y agoThe tiny locks and keys kind of make it obvious that it's not so much insecure as it was never ment to be secure.
- kitd 11y agoCan you reverse engineer a master key from one sample lock though? Genuine question, IDK.
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- tempodox 11y agoNot only is this another impressive demonstration of incompetence, but by disseminating the idea that people's luggage could be “secure” and “backdoored” at the same time, they're actually destroying what security has existed before. They should pivot to be the “Transport Endangerment Agency”.
- flavor8 11y agoMost luggage isn't really secure in the first place. It takes less time to open up a suitcase with a good knife than it does to unzip many suitcases. The idea that a little padlock will protect your suitcase from thieves is laughable. Like physical mail, the system is based on trust, and trying to patch security onto it is difficult.
- aneidon 11y agoSure, but if someone cuts your suitcase open with a knife it'll be much more obvious than if they used the master key to open it and then zipped it shut again.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- piquadrat 11y agoMaybe if you cut it, but that's not even necessary https://youtu.be/zMTXzQ0Vqn8?t=106 https://youtu.be/zMTXzQ0Vqn8?t=106
- k33l0r 11y agoI've been through the training for airport security officers (not in the US, though) and that's one of the techniques they taught us. Also most baggage locks are ridiculously easy to pick with basic tools (literally a 15-30 minute lesson) even if you don't have the master keys available.
- 0xCMP 11y ago
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- stewartbutler 11y agoWorkaround: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/09/expensive_camer.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/09/expensive_cam...
- ksherlock 11y agohttp://www.heraldnet.com/article/20141130/NEWS02/141139966 http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20141130/NEWS02/141139966 -- third picture in the slide show.
- GordonS 11y agoMuch higher quality images here: https://imgur.com/a/JQD7l https://imgur.com/a/JQD7l
- Spooky23 11y agoThe whole proposition here is ridiculous. "we must assume any adversary can open any TSA "lock"" No shit. We're not talking about a bank vault here -- it's luggage. Does anyone, anywhere, have any expectation whatsoever that a luggage lock provides meaningful security? I think I opened my mom's luggage lock with my sister's hairpin when I was 6 years old, and I have zero lock picking skills.
- coldpie 11y agoThe article isn't about the usefulness of TSA's locks, it's an allegory about backdoors, and another humorous take on the TSA's utter incompetence.
- abhv 11y agoSchneier's post is a re-blog of Nicholas Weaver's original story here: https://www.lawfareblog.com/tale-three-backdoors https://www.lawfareblog.com/tale-three-backdoors
- rogeryu 11y agoSo luggage handlers can open my suitcase, put in some drugs, and at the other end I can get caught for having drugs in my luggage? They should setup a service where you checkin your luggage, they check it for drugs or illegal stuff, they seal it, and at arrival you get your suitcase with the guarantee that it had no drugs at checkin.
- leephillips 11y agoIf the authorities want to frame you they don't have to go to so much trouble. The officer just uses the drugs in his pocket. The problem is the laws, clearly.
- alistairSH 11y agoI assume the goal isn't to frame you, but to smuggle drugs. Baggage handler/TSA agent at airport #1 opens baggage, places drugs inside, calls baggage hander/TSA agent at airport #2 with luggage brand and traveler name. When flight arrives, hander #2 intercepts baggage. At this point, they either take the whole suitcase, or remove the drugs and the traveler is none the wiser.
- mtgx 11y agoDon't give them anymore business model ideas.
- mseebach 11y agoI think Bruce Schneier has a term for coming up with theoretical threats and then "fixing" that threat through an elaborate system.
- 3pt14159 11y agoThe counter measure to this is loudly speaking out, not other systems. When enough people speak out a system gets a reputation. It is how we understand a country as being corrupt or hostile. If they want to frame you, it is really, really easy. The problem they have is they can only frame a couple dozen people before they lose a huge amount of trust.
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- hellbanner 11y agoMy google-fu is lacking, but recently (last year?) an inmate escaped thanks to their cellmate who was a master jeweler & had a full kit in his cell. A photograph of the guard's keys was smuggled in and the jeweler cut a key for the inmate to escape.
- stingraycharles 11y agoI think this is the story you are talking about: http://www.news.com.au/national/killer-escaped-prison-after-being-issued-picture-of-master-key-to-all-locks/story-fncynjr2-1226629878591 http://www.news.com.au/national/killer-escaped-prison-after-...
- Vexs 11y ago> THE design for a key that allowed a convicted killer to escape from a Territory prison was printed on the cover of a booklet given to all inmates, it has been revealed. Pahahaha. That sounds like something you'd find in an ARG puzzle, but this was a prison. Kinda curious how the other prisoner had jeweler's equipment in his cell, it seems like that could be pretty dangerous. Good behavior?
- kuschku 11y agoMost prisons don’t look like it’s shown in movies, but more like http://static.businessinsider.com/image/53862b38ecad041f184e37de/image.jpg http://static.businessinsider.com/image/53862b38ecad041f184e... It’s also not uncommon for many criminals to be allowed to leave the prison and walk around in the surrounding area to go to stores, etc, unless they are a direct threat. So, having this equip in the cell is not unusual.
- morsch 11y agoThat photo's probably from some German-speaking country. Is it representative of US prison cells?
- tptacek 11y agoWas it ever possible to have a secure lock held by tens of thousands of people with a secure master key, even if the authentic master keys were never revealed?
- kabdib 11y agoThis. One thing that kills escrow systems dead is the complacent spread of authority. You start with critical keys that are closely held. Over time other parties express the need for access ("Okay, if you promise to be good"). Nothing bad happens (that anyone can prove...) so over time more entities are brought into the circle of trust. Eventually the dog-catcher has access to your stuff. There's no way these keys haven't already broadly leaked (I mean, before these pictures).
- dragonwriter 11y agoReally, it doesn't matter if they've broadly leaked or not -- from very early on in the "TSA must have your keys" period, theft by TSA agents from luggage was a noteworthy problem. The spread of authority may be a problem, but when the original authority isn't trustworthy in the first place, problems start long before any spread.
- kabdib 11y agoI admit to thinking more broadly, about key escrow systems in general. The whole idea of a small set of physical keys and a large number of publically available locks is, of course, utter horse poop. The logical extension of this "security" and "industry needs to meet law enforcement in the middle" to digital keys is terrifying. And I'm guessing it's how quite a few people think about it in the TSA and other organizations.
- tptacek 11y agoI'm asking a different question. Forget about leaks for a second. If a mechanical engineer can get their hands on 1,000 sample locks and keys (for instance: by simply buying them) and then imaging them, is it that difficult to reverse engineer the skeleton key system?
- jonknee 11y agoI had a TSA lock and it lasted exactly one trip. They searched the bag (found a note inside) and didn't lock the case back up, I never saw the lock again. Ridiculous.
- whaaaaaaat 11y agospoiler alert: don't check your luggage
- mzs 11y agoFor luggage it's usually on a zipper with two sliders, which you just pull on the tape to separate, look inside, do whatever you like while in there, and then move the sliders back and forth twice to re-close, so it never really mattered.
- Vexs 11y agoI'm kinda surprised that key number 2 on the imgur mirror is a dimple lock. Those are generally used for more high security things than crap tsa travel locks; they're expensive too. Key 4 doesn't surprise me though. https://imgur.com/a/JQD7l https://imgur.com/a/JQD7l
- explorigin 11y agoDimple locks are not at all for high-security, they are less common though. They can easily be defeated with a deep-drilled blank wrapped in aluminum foil.
- AUmrysh 11y agoMany dimple locks can be picked with just some tension on the cylinder and a ball pick. The common cheap Bell brand lock at wal-mart or amazon [1] is easily picked like this. All you do is stick the ball pick in the back of the keyway, apply your tension, and wiggle the pick around the keyway as you pull it out. You might have to insert it a few times, but I've been able to reliably open one of those in about 10 seconds. 1: http://www.amazon.com/Bell-Sports-7015777-CATALYST-U-Lock/dp/B000AAYBKA http://www.amazon.com/Bell-Sports-7015777-CATALYST-U-Lock/dp...
- seany 11y agoChecking firearms has been my way around this. You are required by law to use a hard sided box that is properly locked with real locks.
- scurvy 11y agoThere's a comment in the original post about bags with firearms requiring a non-TSA lock. Has anyone travelled with a firearm as a maneuver to secure their luggage? Seems lengthy, but probably works. I'd imagine you need to check-in in a different area and not the front desk? Edit: I just watched the YouTube video posted below. Looks like we're just dealing with a flawed system.
- kungfooey 11y agoThere was a talk about this by Deviant Ollam at The Last HOPE in NYC in 2008. Mp3 Link: http://www.thelasthope.org/media/audio/64kbps/Packing_and_the_Friendly_Skies_-_Why_Transporting_Firearms_M.mp3 http://www.thelasthope.org/media/audio/64kbps/Packing_and_th... More info: http://deviating.net/firearms/packing/ http://deviating.net/firearms/packing/
- samstave 11y agoLook at this video I made a while back about handgun locks... https://youtu.be/BjkRVNFkjaw https://youtu.be/BjkRVNFkjaw
- 15155 11y agoI do not fly anywhere without a firearm (save for non-free cities such as SF and NYC). This method absolutely works. My luggage is a very large pelican case. > I'd imagine you need to check-in in a different area and not the front desk? Yes, and at some airports you get your very own line (which is almost never busy). I've saved multiple hours at certain major airports because of the separate screening procedures/lines. Most of the time, though, you'll just go to a normal desk, say "I need a firearms declaration," and they'll check you in as-normal, until your bag needs to be screened. At that point, you'll go to another area, unlock the bag for the TSA (if it alarms) and receive a hand-screening.
- chillacy 11y agoBenefits also include having your baggage held by an employee and requiring your ID to reclaim it, which should also reduce baggage theft as well. I've heard of photographers packing their expensive gear with cheap starter guns (used for racing) in order to get this benefit.
- davrosthedalek 11y agoIt's sad that so many comments concentrate on whether luggage is secure in the first place. Of course it is not. The real issue is that having a backdoor makes a new class of attacks possible. A wilful or accidental leak, for example. Or you can reverse engineer the master key if you have enough locks. The big impact is that one leak kills the security of all locks (of that type). I don't think this would necessarily be the case when looking at (publicly) backdoored encryption. Here, you could have an individual backdoor key for each "lock". Of course, the mass storage of backdoor keys make a mass-leak also more probable.
- pmontra 11y agoI usually pay to wrap my luggage with plastic, see www.cnbc.com/2014/04/02/travelers-pay-to-protect-luggage-with-plastic-wrap.html I do it more to protect the suitcase than its content. I think it defeats the purpose of a TSA lock. Is it still allowed in the USA?
- MCRed 11y agoThe TSA has resulted in millions in stolen items, and not caught a single "terrorist". Its procedures are a joke, it is irradiating everyone, or if they opt out, molesting them, which is a crime in all 50 states... not to mention every single TSA search is a violation of USC 18-242. The existence of this organization proves that both Bush and Obama and the Democrats and Republican parties are corrupt and irrational... and more interested in their own power than in benefiting the country.
- happyscrappy 11y agoThe worst damage an individual can do to the environment, short of starting a tire fire at the dump, is to fly. Save the environment and avoid the TSA, don't fly.
- krastanov 11y agoI am pretty sure that in terms of person-miles per gallon flying is comparable to automobiles. Are you referring to some secondary damage that flying causes?
- kuschku 11y agoActually, flying is better than almost all cars sold in the US (except for the VW Up!, which comes close). An Airbus A380 uses the equivalent energy of 3l gasoline per passenger per 100km. This is a mileage of 80mpg. Only rail is more efficient.
- ufmace 11y agoI remember reading somewhere that rail, and most other mass transit, isn't actually that efficient. The idea being that sure, a bus or train full of people is really efficient, but in order to get all of those people to want to ride it, you have to run a lot of empty or almost-empty vehicles around all the time. Sum up all the trips for the whole system, and it's about the same as an average-ish car.
- kuschku 11y agoIt obviously depends – in Tokyo, or NYC, you’ll have almost-full trains 24/7. As you obviously use smaller trains at night, and only full trains during rush hour. Even with busses, most transit authorities have lots of different sizes – from 10 people busses in rural areas at night, to bi-articulated busses for 300 people at rush hour in downtown areas. If you always try to use the same vehicle, though, yes, you get the same mileage as an average car. You still save space on the roads, though.
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- nsxwolf 11y agoI used to buy those TSA approved locks with the master lock. They would just cut them off anyway.
- adultSwim 11y agoOops
- rdl 11y agoI generally use either a pelican case with abloy protec 2 321 or 330 padlocks (essentially the least pickable), or a pacsafe anti theft suitcase with tsa lock and seals. Not perfect, but beyond casual or even local LEO surreptitious entry.
- nsajko 11y agoOT but, I wonder what would happen if i had items in my luggage encased in a block of plastic?
- darksim905 11y agoHey everyone :) If someone happens to have questions about these keys, we don't physically have them. But we plan on making our own versions & finding the right blanks. If you think you can help, or want to know more, you can always reach out to myself or @Irongeek_ADC. If you happen to know Solidworks & how to trace objects, I'd like to really get to know you. Cheers :)
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