11 ms·

>best-in-class Have you seen the latest trends of BMW? The way how they're going downhill and how Cadillac and their "sport-luxury" sedans are catching up make

by Aoyagi 11y ago

>best-in-class Have you seen the latest trends of BMW? The way how they're going downhill and how Cadillac and their "sport-luxury" sedans are catching up makes me feel like the perception of BMW is an anachronism.

vetinari 11y ago
That's what happens when the customers are more interested in iPhone connectivity and entertainment options instead of suspension and engine. Also, when the regulations will force you to put in bullshit like start-stop system or efficiency regulations force engine downsizing and use of turbos. That's why even Hyundai is catching up and the premium brands are standing still. For existing owner, there is no reason to switch from E46 or E90 to F30. The older ones are more fun.
- raspasov 11y ago
  I agree, especially the newest 328i with its 4 cylinder engine that sounds like a motorboat :). Tbe previous generation is way better.
  - chubs 11y ago
    The direct injection makes the petrol engine sound like a clunky diesel. It's pretty crummy. Combined with the wooden electric power steering and they're really boring cars to drive. Not to mention the gripless run-flat tyres. I used to own one - never again, all they've got going for them is the admittedly lovely styling.
  - cowkingdeluxe 11y ago
    The new ones have more horsepower even with the 4 cylinder. Better handling too. For example the 2016 is a 4 cylinder but has 10 more horsepower and 26% more torque than the 2011 6 cylinder. Do they need to pipe in engine sounds into the speaker system like other brands do (Lexus)?
    - vetinari 11y ago
      The turbocharged 4 cylinder, while has more horsepower and more torque, has also much shorter life span. Do not expect to drive upwards 500k km on it. But I guess for those who buy cars for 4 years, that's fine.
      - gaadd33 11y ago
        How much do people drive where you are located? At least in the US, even if the car/engine only lasted 200K miles (~321k km) that would still be about 13 years of average use.
        vetinari 11y ago
        Depends on the car. The old diesels or atmospheric petrol engines in sedans were build to serve almost forever (petrol 500k, diesel 1m). Even "newer" (cca end of nineties) turbo-diesels were robust - I was once in a taxi (Skoda Octavia), that had 800k on the odometer... On the other hand, new compact cars with their 1.0 - 1.2 three cylinder, turbo charged engines will be done in the 100-150k range. Again, if you want to buy a new car and get rid of it after the lease is paid, they will be fine. If you want to keep it longer, look somewhere else.
- Aoyagi 11y ago
  Well, downsizing is a lot to blame I guess. Still though, I think it has (at best) a 3L turbo-charged engine, which is weaker than Cadillac's NA 3.6L engine (which isn't available in Europe though).
- Shivetya 11y ago
  Start/Stop and Turbos are fine. I experience both in my 2012 Z4. That little turbo hardtop car is averaging over thirty miles per gallon for me while driving locally/commuting and hit forty on a long distance trip. So all that mileage and fun, I will take it. BMW is going to PHEV/Hybrid all their cars within five to ten years so I expect we will get used to it. Far better option than lugging around eight hundred or more pounds of battery. Figure your going to end up with quite a few three cylinder engines and such until eventually replaced by some form of fuel cell and buffer battery. I don't think BMW is losing its handling prowess, I do think others are catching up and a few surpass them here and there; Jaguar is getting good marks.
  - marincounty 11y ago
    All this engineering is fine, until that sensor, or system breaks down? These vehicles are becomming so difficult to work on even the dealership mechanics are learning on the the customers' dime. I won't even get started on the proprietary software, and the fact that independent 3 party repair shops can't even buy access to the repair codes. My father used to say I can roll down my own windows. I thought at the time he was being to hard on the industry. They finally engineered servos that worked longer than a year. He would flip if he saw just how complicated vechicles have become, and how he would wouldn't be able to buy a service manual, and do most of repairs. My father bought very few new automobiles, but always bought a factory service manual, and did all his own repairs. His last vechicle was a 98 Dodge Dakota. It was still simple enough for him to work on, and now myself to work on. (My father passed away a few years after he bought the Dodge.) I will hand it to certain companies, like Toyota, who engineer complicated vechicles, but these vechicles are putting easily 250,000 miles on the odometer. Yes, a lot of the fancy features/gadgets stop working, but the vechicle still runs, and gets through smog. Needed advances in technology--yes! Fluff/gadgets--no! But I'm just an older guy who really never got the need for so many retractable beverage holders.
    - protomyth 11y ago
      The sad part is that electric cars should be simpler to work on than gas powered cars. I honestly think a company that builds a easy to repair electric will make cash. They will probably still make fine money off service, but having the option means something to people recommending product. // sorry for your loss - glad the vehicle lives on
beedogs 11y ago
To me, the E46 body was the last good-looking 3 series BMW made. I haven't seen one since that made me feel the same way.
- arethuza 11y ago
  Have you seen an i8 - they are one of the best looking cars I've seen in the last few years. They look much nicer than they do in pictures.
  - robin_reala 11y ago
    Agreed, although once you’ve had the back of the i8 described to you as trying to give birth to a 911 it’s difficult to unsee it: https://d37nk263jfz2p8.cloudfront.net/image/1/700/0/uploads/articles/bmw_i8-49-53bd743fbf1ce.jpg https://d37nk263jfz2p8.cloudfront.net/image/1/700/0/uploads/...
    - m52go 11y ago
      That's hysterical.
  - hultner 11y ago
    I've seen one almost daily for a while now when I walk past either of the two BMW centers in close proximity to where I live and I can't say that I agree with you. To me the i8 (and even more so the i3) looks like some sort of weird Japanese spaceship from the future and not at all the subtle luxurious classy design that I expect from a German Premium wagon. In short it's to much attention, screaming "I'm here, look at me". I'm not a rapper I want timeless class not flashy bling.
    - threeseed 11y ago
      I've seen a few on the road and they definitely aren't timeless. They will be considered tacky when people look back on them. But I suspect the purpose of them is very similar to the iMac. Designed to be distinctive, talked about and just a tad polarising.
anthony_d 11y ago
Holy crap no. I just traded in a CTS Coupe. I got it because of style and wanted a change from the previous 2 BMW's. I got rid of it because in every aspect the Cadillac was inferior to the BMW's. I actually went with Audi but all of the big German brands MB/Audi/BMW are in a completely different league than Cadillac.
tobltobs 11y ago
"how Cadillac and their "sport-luxury" sedans are catching up " Catching up? Maybe on a road without curves.
- GVIrish 11y ago
  Actually that's where the new Cadillac's are strong. The ATS and CTS tend to score at the top of their respective segments in handling and the V series versions of both cars typically win performance comparos. Where they fall down is in the interior styling and materials.
  - schreiaj 11y ago
    Agreed, it's mostly fit and finish. Truth, if we only look at on road performance the CTS/ATS probably beat the 3 series. But the interior of a BMW is just leaps and bounds above the cheap feel of the Cadillac. Source, daily driver is a 2013 3 Series and my brother is one of the engineers doing NVH testing on the CTS/ATS, we compare notes frequently. And, as part of his job he did have to test the other vehicles in the class. Honestly, after a relocation I can't really justify the cost of the BMW so when my lease is up I'm going to be REALLY sad to get rid of it, nothing else seems to really come close.
  - Aoyagi 11y ago
    As far as interior or the last generations goes, I agree. Glossy touch-only iPhonization is disgusting. Then again, I hate most newest modern interiors, including that of 3 Series. However, previous generation of CTS has one of the best interiors I've seen ever.
    - schreiaj 11y ago
      Touch screen based climate controls make me sad. I can't use them at all. User testing shows that in actual use people prefer the old 3 knob approach but they seem to be drawn to the glossy touch screen that you can't read in sun or even blindly grope at. I'd blame terrible drivers in New England on bad UX in the cars... but I know it's caused by them also eating a sandwich, doing their makeup, and talking on the phone while trying to merge.

by Aoyagi 11y ago

vetinari 11y ago

That's what happens when the customers are more interested in iPhone connectivity and entertainment options instead of suspension and engine. Also, when the regulations will force you to put in bullshit like start-stop system or efficiency regulations force engine downsizing and use of turbos. That's why even Hyundai is catching up and the premium brands are standing still. For existing owner, there is no reason to switch from E46 or E90 to F30. The older ones are more fun.

raspasov 11y ago
I agree, especially the newest 328i with its 4 cylinder engine that sounds like a motorboat :). Tbe previous generation is way better.
- chubs 11y ago
  The direct injection makes the petrol engine sound like a clunky diesel. It's pretty crummy. Combined with the wooden electric power steering and they're really boring cars to drive. Not to mention the gripless run-flat tyres. I used to own one - never again, all they've got going for them is the admittedly lovely styling.
- cowkingdeluxe 11y ago
  The new ones have more horsepower even with the 4 cylinder. Better handling too. For example the 2016 is a 4 cylinder but has 10 more horsepower and 26% more torque than the 2011 6 cylinder. Do they need to pipe in engine sounds into the speaker system like other brands do (Lexus)?
  - vetinari 11y ago
    The turbocharged 4 cylinder, while has more horsepower and more torque, has also much shorter life span. Do not expect to drive upwards 500k km on it. But I guess for those who buy cars for 4 years, that's fine.
    - gaadd33 11y ago
      How much do people drive where you are located? At least in the US, even if the car/engine only lasted 200K miles (~321k km) that would still be about 13 years of average use.
      - vetinari 11y ago
        Depends on the car. The old diesels or atmospheric petrol engines in sedans were build to serve almost forever (petrol 500k, diesel 1m). Even "newer" (cca end of nineties) turbo-diesels were robust - I was once in a taxi (Skoda Octavia), that had 800k on the odometer... On the other hand, new compact cars with their 1.0 - 1.2 three cylinder, turbo charged engines will be done in the 100-150k range. Again, if you want to buy a new car and get rid of it after the lease is paid, they will be fine. If you want to keep it longer, look somewhere else.
Aoyagi 11y ago
Well, downsizing is a lot to blame I guess. Still though, I think it has (at best) a 3L turbo-charged engine, which is weaker than Cadillac's NA 3.6L engine (which isn't available in Europe though).
Shivetya 11y ago
Start/Stop and Turbos are fine. I experience both in my 2012 Z4. That little turbo hardtop car is averaging over thirty miles per gallon for me while driving locally/commuting and hit forty on a long distance trip. So all that mileage and fun, I will take it. BMW is going to PHEV/Hybrid all their cars within five to ten years so I expect we will get used to it. Far better option than lugging around eight hundred or more pounds of battery. Figure your going to end up with quite a few three cylinder engines and such until eventually replaced by some form of fuel cell and buffer battery. I don't think BMW is losing its handling prowess, I do think others are catching up and a few surpass them here and there; Jaguar is getting good marks.
- marincounty 11y ago
  All this engineering is fine, until that sensor, or system breaks down? These vehicles are becomming so difficult to work on even the dealership mechanics are learning on the the customers' dime. I won't even get started on the proprietary software, and the fact that independent 3 party repair shops can't even buy access to the repair codes. My father used to say I can roll down my own windows. I thought at the time he was being to hard on the industry. They finally engineered servos that worked longer than a year. He would flip if he saw just how complicated vechicles have become, and how he would wouldn't be able to buy a service manual, and do most of repairs. My father bought very few new automobiles, but always bought a factory service manual, and did all his own repairs. His last vechicle was a 98 Dodge Dakota. It was still simple enough for him to work on, and now myself to work on. (My father passed away a few years after he bought the Dodge.) I will hand it to certain companies, like Toyota, who engineer complicated vechicles, but these vechicles are putting easily 250,000 miles on the odometer. Yes, a lot of the fancy features/gadgets stop working, but the vechicle still runs, and gets through smog. Needed advances in technology--yes! Fluff/gadgets--no! But I'm just an older guy who really never got the need for so many retractable beverage holders.
  - protomyth 11y ago
    The sad part is that electric cars should be simpler to work on than gas powered cars. I honestly think a company that builds a easy to repair electric will make cash. They will probably still make fine money off service, but having the option means something to people recommending product. // sorry for your loss - glad the vehicle lives on

beedogs 11y ago

To me, the E46 body was the last good-looking 3 series BMW made. I haven't seen one since that made me feel the same way.

arethuza 11y ago
Have you seen an i8 - they are one of the best looking cars I've seen in the last few years. They look much nicer than they do in pictures.
- robin_reala 11y ago
  Agreed, although once you’ve had the back of the i8 described to you as trying to give birth to a 911 it’s difficult to unsee it: https://d37nk263jfz2p8.cloudfront.net/image/1/700/0/uploads/articles/bmw_i8-49-53bd743fbf1ce.jpg https://d37nk263jfz2p8.cloudfront.net/image/1/700/0/uploads/...
  - m52go 11y ago
    That's hysterical.
- hultner 11y ago
  I've seen one almost daily for a while now when I walk past either of the two BMW centers in close proximity to where I live and I can't say that I agree with you. To me the i8 (and even more so the i3) looks like some sort of weird Japanese spaceship from the future and not at all the subtle luxurious classy design that I expect from a German Premium wagon. In short it's to much attention, screaming "I'm here, look at me". I'm not a rapper I want timeless class not flashy bling.
  - threeseed 11y ago
    I've seen a few on the road and they definitely aren't timeless. They will be considered tacky when people look back on them. But I suspect the purpose of them is very similar to the iMac. Designed to be distinctive, talked about and just a tad polarising.

anthony_d 11y ago

Holy crap no. I just traded in a CTS Coupe. I got it because of style and wanted a change from the previous 2 BMW's. I got rid of it because in every aspect the Cadillac was inferior to the BMW's. I actually went with Audi but all of the big German brands MB/Audi/BMW are in a completely different league than Cadillac.

tobltobs 11y ago

"how Cadillac and their "sport-luxury" sedans are catching up " Catching up? Maybe on a road without curves.

GVIrish 11y ago
Actually that's where the new Cadillac's are strong. The ATS and CTS tend to score at the top of their respective segments in handling and the V series versions of both cars typically win performance comparos. Where they fall down is in the interior styling and materials.
- schreiaj 11y ago
  Agreed, it's mostly fit and finish. Truth, if we only look at on road performance the CTS/ATS probably beat the 3 series. But the interior of a BMW is just leaps and bounds above the cheap feel of the Cadillac. Source, daily driver is a 2013 3 Series and my brother is one of the engineers doing NVH testing on the CTS/ATS, we compare notes frequently. And, as part of his job he did have to test the other vehicles in the class. Honestly, after a relocation I can't really justify the cost of the BMW so when my lease is up I'm going to be REALLY sad to get rid of it, nothing else seems to really come close.
- Aoyagi 11y ago
  As far as interior or the last generations goes, I agree. Glossy touch-only iPhonization is disgusting. Then again, I hate most newest modern interiors, including that of 3 Series. However, previous generation of CTS has one of the best interiors I've seen ever.
  - schreiaj 11y ago
    Touch screen based climate controls make me sad. I can't use them at all. User testing shows that in actual use people prefer the old 3 knob approach but they seem to be drawn to the glossy touch screen that you can't read in sun or even blindly grope at. I'd blame terrible drivers in New England on bad UX in the cars... but I know it's caused by them also eating a sandwich, doing their makeup, and talking on the phone while trying to merge.