8 ms·

America’s once magical, now mundane love affair with cars

42 points by DLay 11y ago

josai 11y ago
The article touched on smartphones, but I think missed a point - a huge part of the recent "acceptability" of public transport is that people have got something to do during their trip. In fact I kind of get the feeling people almost welcome bus/train trips now as a chance to get in some uninterrupted "phone time"! Previously, unless you brought a book, riding public transport meant a long look out the window. I think that's huge.
- Nav_Panel 11y ago
  It still does mean this on the US public transportation crown jewel, the NYC subway, as there's no Internet in the tunnels. So, I still do bring a book or headphones. However, I think you still make a valid point: I certainly value the stretch of forced "chill out" time in the middle of a city that never seems to let up, whereas driving I much more often find to be stressful and aggravating (in cities at least).
  - tracker1 11y ago
    It's kind of funny, more at the end of the day, and in my days off, I really enjoy driving.. even some heavy traffic doesn't phase me... It's when I'm trying to get somewhere by a certain time that it gets stressful... The past couple years I've taken a 7-10 day road trip across part of the country... It's been very fun and relaxing. I'd much rather drive in a relatively comfortable car enjoying the scenery than flying, but to each their own.
- jseliger 11y ago
  a huge part of the recent "acceptability" of public transport is that people have got something to do during their trip In addition, it's now much easier to mix and match transport options: Lyft at one point, bike at another, bikes at a third. Many cities have also built out much more functional light rail systems. Denver is one good example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTD_Bus_%26_Light_Rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTD_Bus_%26_Light_Rail. A while ago I wrote "Cars and Generational Shift" about similar themes: http://jakeseliger.com/2012/03/24/cars-and-generational-shift http://jakeseliger.com/2012/03/24/cars-and-generational-shif....
mikerichards 11y ago
Cue the usual HN hatred affair with cars..and how if we just had better public transport, and how if cities were planned better.....blah, blah. This thread will be just another repeat of countless other HN threads on this subject. HN is just a parody of itself.
- ska 11y ago
  Well, 2nd comment and you've already done your part to make it a low quality discussion. So that doesn't bode well.
- seren 11y ago
  HN Guidelines : >Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face-to-face conversation. Avoid gratuitous negativity.
- DonHopkins 11y ago
  You think you're disappointed? Well I clicked on the link to read the article because I misread the title as "love affair with cats", so welcome to the club. ;(
makosdv 11y ago
I'm not a car connoisseur like the guys in the article, but I appreciate beautiful cars. I'm an 'old' Millennial though... I drive a 2011 Synergy Green Camaro 2SS. I got my license as soon as I turned 16. I've always lived in smaller towns/cities though, so public transportation is not a very useful thing and having a car is still very important. I just like the freedom it provides though as well. I don't fit the 'Millennial' mold though in lots of other ways, so I'm probably just an outlier.
dade_ 11y ago
First a nit: 'Now, he says, “cars have become virtual reality boxes,” infantilizing the driver. BMW even pipes phony engine noises through its cars’ sound systems...' Chevy and Ford do this too with their trucks at least. Second: 16 years ago I chose a car loan instead of a student loan. I was living in a small town and it was a ticket out. It was key to getting a higher paying job as employers required the mobility. In areas with poor or nonexistent transit, this is still the case. I live in Toronto now, sold my car 2 years ago, walk to work and telecommute and use car sharing. Why? Roads are too congested (I consider commuting in rush our soul destroying), it is so easy to rent a car today compared to 20 years ago and the big one: Insurance. It is prohibitively expensive and I have a perfect driving record. I now rent out my parking stall, and have more money available to travel and I no longer have expensive surprise costs for car repairs. These people are describing a hobby and the author seems to have missed that.
- nsxwolf 11y ago
  At least in BMWs case, the stated goal of playing the engine sound recordings is to assist the driver with shifting by reproducing the audio cues that are muted by the cabin's quiet design.
- aianus 11y ago
  > Roads are too congested (I consider commuting in rush our soul destroying) Drive a motorcycle and filter past all the idling losers. Best feeling in the world :D
  - delinka 11y ago
    Except in some places, this is illegal. And because other drivers know that, doing it is fraught with danger.
    - aianus 11y ago
      It's even more fun when it's illegal. Loser cagers get so mad they look like they're about to burst a vein in their heads.
tempodox 11y ago
Believe it or not, I don't use a car (and never have) in the city where I live. You may call me a troglodyte, but I call it “ahead of my time”. I get around without the noise, the exhaust, the waste of space and the gratuitous danger.
- gadders 11y ago
  Maybe it's a generational thing, but I know several people that have never bothered to learn to drive. When I grew up in the UK, passing your driving test was an important rite of passage. I can understand never owning a car, but never learning to drive feels a bit like never learning to swim.
  - thallian 11y ago
    Only an anecdote from my life, not wanting to prove that you're wrong or something like that: My family has never owned a car (mother is the only one who even has a license) and in the part of the world where I grew up (Switzerland) that was no problem. I make extensive use of the public transport here as I own a GA, a general subscription which is valid for almost the whole of Switzerland (exceptions are mostly ship lines and mountain railways). For me it feels quite weird to travel by car because I am so used to take the train or bus. Maybe I'll learn it someday but for now I have zero need to do so.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - dingaling 11y ago
    > I can understand never owning a car, but never learning to drive feels a bit like never learning to swim. The difference being you don't need a license to swim. I can drive a car ( and agricultural tractor ) but I'm not licensed to do so on the public highway. It simply isn't worth the cost to me. In my part of the UK one must take lessons with 'approved' i.e expensive state-vetted instructors as well as computer-based testing. Then hire of a car for the actual practical lesson, plus its cost. All-in here it costs about £3,000 to receive a license in your hand. And then you can't actually drive on the highway without some form of insurance, starting at around £900 liability-only for new drivers. Learning to swim cost me around £90.
oneJob 11y ago
This is from the Washington Post. If it were from the L.A. Times, maybe it'd carry some weight with me. Having grown up in south Texas and Arizona and then, post college, moved to NYC and now Baltimore, I can attest to an enormous culture divide in car culture between, at least in my experience, the two regions. One, it's just not practical to do without a car in the southwest. In many places, Lyft style services aren't a viable, reliable option for things like driving yourself and your sisters to school every day and then a part-time job after. I've yet to come across a smartphone that has this functionality. And, I'm going to risk making a sweeping generalization here, the stereotypical Texan parent would look at you sideways if you suggested they be your full-time chauffeur. Two, car culture in the southwest is not just about the classics. I mean, everyone loves a classic, but there is a certain love reserved for your beater, for the freedom it affords you, and the memories you end up associating with it. One of my best friends had a '68 Mustang, and it was all beat to hell. There was a hole rusted through the floor in the back that was perfect for emptying any beverage should the need suddenly arise. My other friend in our clique had a Dogde Neon. And I had a wood paneled, 1980's station wagon, clearly nicknamed "The Woody". Now, the guy in the Mustang clearly had the coolest vehicle, but the guy in the Neon was the most fun to be in the passenger seat with, and I was the only one with a car that basically had a twin bed in the back for making out in. It was high school, and we placed emphasis on the fun times, not the cars, and the cars ended up embed with those memories such that I'd never have traded "The Woody" for the Mustang. Third, road trips. Honestly, people on the east coast seam to just not be as familiar with this concept. And, if I have to explain it, well, you won't understand it. But, some highlights... Calling parents from a pay phone to ask permission to borrow car for road trip, but, calling from California. Being tailgated through three states because we pissed off some guy when passing him in Florida, and hoping we didn't run out of gas before he did, or New Orleans. Meeting a person from the UK in San Diego, and them taking unplanned road trip to San Fran, then back to Phienix, AZ. Taking a photo of the speed gauge cause your going 110 mph, the laughing your ass off cause you somehow didn't notice the fuel needle was deep into E, and now you're hitch hiking to a gas station in the middle of nowhere on I-8. The calming emerald glow of an oil refinery in the middle of a cool South Texas night, windows down, because it's pretty much always a road trip going anywhere in Texas. Round trip from Tucson, Az to Charleston, S.C to pick up a friend just getting out of the military, making sure to stop to bar-b-q on the beach any chance we could afford. I could go on. Phones will not replace that. Phones will not replace tailgating. Parents are not a substitute for a drivers license. Public transit could never have provided me such memories. And I'm saying all this as a fierce advocate of bike commuting and public transit. Gas cars will certainly go the way of hitchhiking, but America is too big and has too many amazing pockets of culture and adventure for the car, or whatever fills its role in the future, not to have a place in our lives that is far, far from mundane.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
mironathetin 11y ago
I think the self driving car will finally be the death of the car. What's the point of owning a car, if you don't drive it? You are put out of control, the fun is gone, so why pay for it instead of using public transport? (I write this from a european perspective, where public transport is available). The only thing I think will make it worth while is this: I drove the car (I drove!) to my destination, get out and then I can tell the car: 'find a parking'. Owning a car stopped being fun 20 years ago (at least). Today, in a big city, it only enhances the stress level. So as a consequence it makes sense not to own one (let alone the costs). And it also makes sense that people buy vintage cars. This can be fun, if you like to tinker and don't have to rely on this thing to bring you somewhere and in time.
- mdorazio 11y ago
  Out of curiosity, when is the last time you actually had fun driving your car? I live in California where 99% of my driving is dealing with traffic and road hazards. The last time I had fun behind the wheel was when I went to New Zealand on vacation. I suspect that most people in major metropolitan areas would have more fun browsing facebook on their daily commutes than they actually do driving.
  - mironathetin 11y ago
    "when is the last time you actually had fun driving your car" I usually have fun looking forward to driving a longer distance. Once I am in the car, stuck in the usual jam while trying to leave the city, the fun is gone. And it doesn't come back when the road finally gets empty late in the evening. I used to own a convertible. It was fun using it on summer evenings and nights, in the countryside.
    - mdorazio 11y ago
      I'd say that matches a lot of people's experiences as well. I personally think we'll see "driving" split into two categories: your regular errands and commute you offload to your self-driving car. Your "fun" driving you plan ahead for and go to designated areas/roads where you can take the wheel and drive to your heart's content (without endangering anyone).
chestervonwinch 11y ago
I think it's good to keep in mind that America's "love affair" was more of an arranged relationship [1]. Maybe this is exaggeration, but I can't help but wonder what the american cultural landscape would look like today without the early intense lobbying and power-plays made by those selling and manufacturing the cars... Or perhaps it was just the case that the time of automobile was ripe (compared other transit) and bound to be picked by someone. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...
timonoko 11y ago
It is weird they always mention Linus Torvald's car in American interviews. We frequently learn it is a German brand, one preferred by European taxi drivers and drug pushers and with somekind of personalized license plate. Did he have a car in Finland, or did he even have a driver's license? -- Nobody cared.
aianus 11y ago
> Plus, there’s the sky-high cost of car insurance, an average of $1,800 a year in the Washington area and $1,100 nationwide. Haha that's nothing. I paid $4600 liability-only on my first car in Waterloo, ON, Canada. Could have taken taxis everywhere for half that but I was young and wanted to show off :P
nucleardog 11y ago
> "People talk about the open road," she says, "but in my experience, the road is tolls and traffic cameras." There was a time when if I was having a bad day I'd hit up the highway, roll down the windows, open up the throttle and just drive for an hour. The sound of the engine, some wind in your face, isolation and freedom. Now there are speed cameras everywhere and everyone's driving 25mph under the speed limit. There is no open road, only frustration. They complain that our relationship with cars has become very utilitarian... But that's what our culture has made it. There will be no risk taking. There will be no excessive pollution. There will be no fun.
tyoma 11y ago
The article mentions a decline in teeneger licenses. A big part of this is graduated licensing programs that most (all?) states introduced. Why get a license if you can only effectively use it to get to/from school?

42 points by DLay 11y ago

josai 11y ago

The article touched on smartphones, but I think missed a point - a huge part of the recent "acceptability" of public transport is that people have got something to do during their trip. In fact I kind of get the feeling people almost welcome bus/train trips now as a chance to get in some uninterrupted "phone time"! Previously, unless you brought a book, riding public transport meant a long look out the window. I think that's huge.

Nav_Panel 11y ago
It still does mean this on the US public transportation crown jewel, the NYC subway, as there's no Internet in the tunnels. So, I still do bring a book or headphones. However, I think you still make a valid point: I certainly value the stretch of forced "chill out" time in the middle of a city that never seems to let up, whereas driving I much more often find to be stressful and aggravating (in cities at least).
- tracker1 11y ago
  It's kind of funny, more at the end of the day, and in my days off, I really enjoy driving.. even some heavy traffic doesn't phase me... It's when I'm trying to get somewhere by a certain time that it gets stressful... The past couple years I've taken a 7-10 day road trip across part of the country... It's been very fun and relaxing. I'd much rather drive in a relatively comfortable car enjoying the scenery than flying, but to each their own.
jseliger 11y ago
a huge part of the recent "acceptability" of public transport is that people have got something to do during their trip In addition, it's now much easier to mix and match transport options: Lyft at one point, bike at another, bikes at a third. Many cities have also built out much more functional light rail systems. Denver is one good example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTD_Bus_%26_Light_Rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTD_Bus_%26_Light_Rail. A while ago I wrote "Cars and Generational Shift" about similar themes: http://jakeseliger.com/2012/03/24/cars-and-generational-shift http://jakeseliger.com/2012/03/24/cars-and-generational-shif....

mikerichards 11y ago

Cue the usual HN hatred affair with cars..and how if we just had better public transport, and how if cities were planned better.....blah, blah. This thread will be just another repeat of countless other HN threads on this subject. HN is just a parody of itself.

ska 11y ago
Well, 2nd comment and you've already done your part to make it a low quality discussion. So that doesn't bode well.
seren 11y ago
HN Guidelines : >Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face-to-face conversation. Avoid gratuitous negativity.
DonHopkins 11y ago
You think you're disappointed? Well I clicked on the link to read the article because I misread the title as "love affair with cats", so welcome to the club. ;(

makosdv 11y ago

I'm not a car connoisseur like the guys in the article, but I appreciate beautiful cars. I'm an 'old' Millennial though... I drive a 2011 Synergy Green Camaro 2SS. I got my license as soon as I turned 16. I've always lived in smaller towns/cities though, so public transportation is not a very useful thing and having a car is still very important. I just like the freedom it provides though as well. I don't fit the 'Millennial' mold though in lots of other ways, so I'm probably just an outlier.

dade_ 11y ago

First a nit: 'Now, he says, “cars have become virtual reality boxes,” infantilizing the driver. BMW even pipes phony engine noises through its cars’ sound systems...' Chevy and Ford do this too with their trucks at least. Second: 16 years ago I chose a car loan instead of a student loan. I was living in a small town and it was a ticket out. It was key to getting a higher paying job as employers required the mobility. In areas with poor or nonexistent transit, this is still the case. I live in Toronto now, sold my car 2 years ago, walk to work and telecommute and use car sharing. Why? Roads are too congested (I consider commuting in rush our soul destroying), it is so easy to rent a car today compared to 20 years ago and the big one: Insurance. It is prohibitively expensive and I have a perfect driving record. I now rent out my parking stall, and have more money available to travel and I no longer have expensive surprise costs for car repairs. These people are describing a hobby and the author seems to have missed that.

nsxwolf 11y ago
At least in BMWs case, the stated goal of playing the engine sound recordings is to assist the driver with shifting by reproducing the audio cues that are muted by the cabin's quiet design.
aianus 11y ago
> Roads are too congested (I consider commuting in rush our soul destroying) Drive a motorcycle and filter past all the idling losers. Best feeling in the world :D
- delinka 11y ago
  Except in some places, this is illegal. And because other drivers know that, doing it is fraught with danger.
  - aianus 11y ago
    It's even more fun when it's illegal. Loser cagers get so mad they look like they're about to burst a vein in their heads.

tempodox 11y ago

Believe it or not, I don't use a car (and never have) in the city where I live. You may call me a troglodyte, but I call it “ahead of my time”. I get around without the noise, the exhaust, the waste of space and the gratuitous danger.

gadders 11y ago
Maybe it's a generational thing, but I know several people that have never bothered to learn to drive. When I grew up in the UK, passing your driving test was an important rite of passage. I can understand never owning a car, but never learning to drive feels a bit like never learning to swim.
- thallian 11y ago
  Only an anecdote from my life, not wanting to prove that you're wrong or something like that: My family has never owned a car (mother is the only one who even has a license) and in the part of the world where I grew up (Switzerland) that was no problem. I make extensive use of the public transport here as I own a GA, a general subscription which is valid for almost the whole of Switzerland (exceptions are mostly ship lines and mountain railways). For me it feels quite weird to travel by car because I am so used to take the train or bus. Maybe I'll learn it someday but for now I have zero need to do so.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- dingaling 11y ago
  > I can understand never owning a car, but never learning to drive feels a bit like never learning to swim. The difference being you don't need a license to swim. I can drive a car ( and agricultural tractor ) but I'm not licensed to do so on the public highway. It simply isn't worth the cost to me. In my part of the UK one must take lessons with 'approved' i.e expensive state-vetted instructors as well as computer-based testing. Then hire of a car for the actual practical lesson, plus its cost. All-in here it costs about £3,000 to receive a license in your hand. And then you can't actually drive on the highway without some form of insurance, starting at around £900 liability-only for new drivers. Learning to swim cost me around £90.

oneJob 11y ago

This is from the Washington Post. If it were from the L.A. Times, maybe it'd carry some weight with me. Having grown up in south Texas and Arizona and then, post college, moved to NYC and now Baltimore, I can attest to an enormous culture divide in car culture between, at least in my experience, the two regions. One, it's just not practical to do without a car in the southwest. In many places, Lyft style services aren't a viable, reliable option for things like driving yourself and your sisters to school every day and then a part-time job after. I've yet to come across a smartphone that has this functionality. And, I'm going to risk making a sweeping generalization here, the stereotypical Texan parent would look at you sideways if you suggested they be your full-time chauffeur. Two, car culture in the southwest is not just about the classics. I mean, everyone loves a classic, but there is a certain love reserved for your beater, for the freedom it affords you, and the memories you end up associating with it. One of my best friends had a '68 Mustang, and it was all beat to hell. There was a hole rusted through the floor in the back that was perfect for emptying any beverage should the need suddenly arise. My other friend in our clique had a Dogde Neon. And I had a wood paneled, 1980's station wagon, clearly nicknamed "The Woody". Now, the guy in the Mustang clearly had the coolest vehicle, but the guy in the Neon was the most fun to be in the passenger seat with, and I was the only one with a car that basically had a twin bed in the back for making out in. It was high school, and we placed emphasis on the fun times, not the cars, and the cars ended up embed with those memories such that I'd never have traded "The Woody" for the Mustang. Third, road trips. Honestly, people on the east coast seam to just not be as familiar with this concept. And, if I have to explain it, well, you won't understand it. But, some highlights... Calling parents from a pay phone to ask permission to borrow car for road trip, but, calling from California. Being tailgated through three states because we pissed off some guy when passing him in Florida, and hoping we didn't run out of gas before he did, or New Orleans. Meeting a person from the UK in San Diego, and them taking unplanned road trip to San Fran, then back to Phienix, AZ. Taking a photo of the speed gauge cause your going 110 mph, the laughing your ass off cause you somehow didn't notice the fuel needle was deep into E, and now you're hitch hiking to a gas station in the middle of nowhere on I-8. The calming emerald glow of an oil refinery in the middle of a cool South Texas night, windows down, because it's pretty much always a road trip going anywhere in Texas. Round trip from Tucson, Az to Charleston, S.C to pick up a friend just getting out of the military, making sure to stop to bar-b-q on the beach any chance we could afford. I could go on. Phones will not replace that. Phones will not replace tailgating. Parents are not a substitute for a drivers license. Public transit could never have provided me such memories. And I'm saying all this as a fierce advocate of bike commuting and public transit. Gas cars will certainly go the way of hitchhiking, but America is too big and has too many amazing pockets of culture and adventure for the car, or whatever fills its role in the future, not to have a place in our lives that is far, far from mundane.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

mironathetin 11y ago

I think the self driving car will finally be the death of the car. What's the point of owning a car, if you don't drive it? You are put out of control, the fun is gone, so why pay for it instead of using public transport? (I write this from a european perspective, where public transport is available). The only thing I think will make it worth while is this: I drove the car (I drove!) to my destination, get out and then I can tell the car: 'find a parking'. Owning a car stopped being fun 20 years ago (at least). Today, in a big city, it only enhances the stress level. So as a consequence it makes sense not to own one (let alone the costs). And it also makes sense that people buy vintage cars. This can be fun, if you like to tinker and don't have to rely on this thing to bring you somewhere and in time.

mdorazio 11y ago
Out of curiosity, when is the last time you actually had fun driving your car? I live in California where 99% of my driving is dealing with traffic and road hazards. The last time I had fun behind the wheel was when I went to New Zealand on vacation. I suspect that most people in major metropolitan areas would have more fun browsing facebook on their daily commutes than they actually do driving.
- mironathetin 11y ago
  "when is the last time you actually had fun driving your car" I usually have fun looking forward to driving a longer distance. Once I am in the car, stuck in the usual jam while trying to leave the city, the fun is gone. And it doesn't come back when the road finally gets empty late in the evening. I used to own a convertible. It was fun using it on summer evenings and nights, in the countryside.
  - mdorazio 11y ago
    I'd say that matches a lot of people's experiences as well. I personally think we'll see "driving" split into two categories: your regular errands and commute you offload to your self-driving car. Your "fun" driving you plan ahead for and go to designated areas/roads where you can take the wheel and drive to your heart's content (without endangering anyone).

chestervonwinch 11y ago

I think it's good to keep in mind that America's "love affair" was more of an arranged relationship [1]. Maybe this is exaggeration, but I can't help but wonder what the american cultural landscape would look like today without the early intense lobbying and power-plays made by those selling and manufacturing the cars... Or perhaps it was just the case that the time of automobile was ripe (compared other transit) and bound to be picked by someone. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...

timonoko 11y ago

It is weird they always mention Linus Torvald's car in American interviews. We frequently learn it is a German brand, one preferred by European taxi drivers and drug pushers and with somekind of personalized license plate. Did he have a car in Finland, or did he even have a driver's license? -- Nobody cared.

aianus 11y ago

> Plus, there’s the sky-high cost of car insurance, an average of $1,800 a year in the Washington area and $1,100 nationwide. Haha that's nothing. I paid $4600 liability-only on my first car in Waterloo, ON, Canada. Could have taken taxis everywhere for half that but I was young and wanted to show off :P

nucleardog 11y ago

> "People talk about the open road," she says, "but in my experience, the road is tolls and traffic cameras." There was a time when if I was having a bad day I'd hit up the highway, roll down the windows, open up the throttle and just drive for an hour. The sound of the engine, some wind in your face, isolation and freedom. Now there are speed cameras everywhere and everyone's driving 25mph under the speed limit. There is no open road, only frustration. They complain that our relationship with cars has become very utilitarian... But that's what our culture has made it. There will be no risk taking. There will be no excessive pollution. There will be no fun.

tyoma 11y ago

The article mentions a decline in teeneger licenses. A big part of this is graduated licensing programs that most (all?) states introduced. Why get a license if you can only effectively use it to get to/from school?