4 ms·

And let me guess, since "The Capitalist project" has failed we're going to go back to those successes of the 20th century that caused so much human misery.

deciplex 11y ago
I mean, I agree with you that Stockholm isn't the greatest city in the world to live in, nor Oslo, but they're not exactly filled to the brim with human misery, either.
- noarchy 11y ago
  They're also not socialist, in the sense that the parent comment was (I think) hinting at. There's plenty of capitalism at work in both Sweden and Norway.
  - rjblackman 11y ago
    you are mixing up communism and socialism. socialism and capitalism are not mutually exclusive. the scandinavian systems are called "nordic socialism" for a reason.
    - icebraining 11y ago
      Socialism doesn't have an agreed-upon definition. For example, the World Socialist Movement will tell you that it entails an end to private property and to trades using money[1]. Whether the Nordic model is really socialist is a subject of intense debate among the Left (as usual). [1] http://www.worldsocialism.org/english/what-socialism http://www.worldsocialism.org/english/what-socialism
      - rjblackman 11y ago
        well the USSR under Gorbachev were considering moving to it (the nordic model) so I guess that gives some creedence to it's "left-ness"
        icebraining 11y ago
        Not even Lenin's USSR was considered Socialist by everyone (see the State Capitalism critiques, particularly by the anarchists), let alone the USSR under Perestroika!
- brc 11y ago
  Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland are all capitalist countries with a high economic freedom index. That the voters choose to vote themselves high taxes for the purposes of high government spending is more a function of their culture than anything else.
ddoolin 11y ago
Why does it have to be this way or that way? Are the only two ways really down and...down? I have a hard time believing that to be true.
x5n1 11y ago
> "The Capitalist project" has failed Did you actually read what was written? It hasn't failed. It's failing to produce for Capitalist themselves in terms of profits. Capitalism has succeeded. But that means the journey is at its end. There is no going back, there is only going forward. And forward does not look like the present or the past. The cost of production is going up while the profits are going down. As a web person it's not hard for me to see. No one wants to pay for web development but want all the features. Technology enables this to some extent but there are limits to what can be done. The product has to be perfect and has to be free or nearly free. etc. etc. Sooner or later I will fail to deliver on expectations. http://www.faculty.rsu.edu/users/f/felwell/www/Theorists/Essays/Wallerstein2.htm http://www.faculty.rsu.edu/users/f/felwell/www/Theorists/Ess...

deciplex 11y ago

I mean, I agree with you that Stockholm isn't the greatest city in the world to live in, nor Oslo, but they're not exactly filled to the brim with human misery, either.

noarchy 11y ago
They're also not socialist, in the sense that the parent comment was (I think) hinting at. There's plenty of capitalism at work in both Sweden and Norway.
- rjblackman 11y ago
  you are mixing up communism and socialism. socialism and capitalism are not mutually exclusive. the scandinavian systems are called "nordic socialism" for a reason.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    Socialism doesn't have an agreed-upon definition. For example, the World Socialist Movement will tell you that it entails an end to private property and to trades using money[1]. Whether the Nordic model is really socialist is a subject of intense debate among the Left (as usual). [1] http://www.worldsocialism.org/english/what-socialism http://www.worldsocialism.org/english/what-socialism
    - rjblackman 11y ago
      well the USSR under Gorbachev were considering moving to it (the nordic model) so I guess that gives some creedence to it's "left-ness"
      - icebraining 11y ago
        Not even Lenin's USSR was considered Socialist by everyone (see the State Capitalism critiques, particularly by the anarchists), let alone the USSR under Perestroika!
brc 11y ago
Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland are all capitalist countries with a high economic freedom index. That the voters choose to vote themselves high taxes for the purposes of high government spending is more a function of their culture than anything else.

ddoolin 11y ago

Why does it have to be this way or that way? Are the only two ways really down and...down? I have a hard time believing that to be true.

x5n1 11y ago

> "The Capitalist project" has failed Did you actually read what was written? It hasn't failed. It's failing to produce for Capitalist themselves in terms of profits. Capitalism has succeeded. But that means the journey is at its end. There is no going back, there is only going forward. And forward does not look like the present or the past. The cost of production is going up while the profits are going down. As a web person it's not hard for me to see. No one wants to pay for web development but want all the features. Technology enables this to some extent but there are limits to what can be done. The product has to be perfect and has to be free or nearly free. etc. etc. Sooner or later I will fail to deliver on expectations. http://www.faculty.rsu.edu/users/f/felwell/www/Theorists/Essays/Wallerstein2.htm http://www.faculty.rsu.edu/users/f/felwell/www/Theorists/Ess...