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Does anyone else see the whole martial arts metaphor stretched beyond reason here? It's not as if anything in this essay was truly groundbreaking, but was kind
by alexgartrell 17y ago
Does anyone else see the whole martial arts metaphor stretched beyond reason here? It's not as if anything in this essay was truly groundbreaking, but was kind of just more of the same stuff.
Or maybe I'm just against any metaphor that leads to a stronger rationalization for the title "Ruby/Python/etc. Ninja"
- andrewcooke 17y agowhat he's saying is similar to cockburn's take on shu ha ri, and you might find that makes more sense - http://alistair.cockburn.us/Shu+Ha+Ri http://alistair.cockburn.us/Shu+Ha+Ri (i prefer it - i don't disagree with zed shaw's appeal for simplicity, but i think cockburn's approach shows that simplicity is only possible by passing through complexity)
- zedshaw 17y agoI'd say that concept is much more on becoming and expert. Actually, he reference "Novice To Expert" at the end of that which should be a good indicator. But, don't ask me what becoming a master looks like.
- hc 17y agosorry if this sounds overly combative, but is there any proof out there that this cockburn fellow actually can program his way out of a paper bag?
- andrewcooke 17y agoas far as i know, there's not. does that change the argument somehow? the article is more general than programming.
- hc 17y agoit would make me more willing to expend the effort and time to investigate his theories on programming methodology.
- zedshaw 17y agoYou didn't really read it did you? Your last sentence pretty much proves it.
- blasdel 17y agoBear with me on this, but perhaps he read it more closely than you wrote it! Do you not see how ripe your metaphor is for a superficial interpretation by the kind of impressionable readers that currently go around advertising for ninja coworkers? A master would have addressed that more directly in the essay: the 'frustrated expert' vignette is good, but should be expanded so that every affected ninja comes away with the realization that they are a moron. You can't leave any room for aspirational mastery. NONE.
- strait 17y agoI am ignorant, but not a moron, and aspirational mastery excites me. What is your solution?
- alexgartrell 17y agoI was referring to the "X as a martial art" metaphor in general. Not your piece in particular. I should have been more clear. This whole "Listen to how much Programming is like _____" thing is overdone. We're scientists, engineers, craftsmen, painters, artists, etc. and now we're also martial artists. I just don't understand why we can't be happy with being Computer Programmers. And I understand that a rational criticism of me saying this is "well obviously this guy isn't exploring the deeper meaning of what's said here," but why does there need to be a deeper meaning behind this all? It just seems so meta.
- jamesbritt 17y agoPeople learn by analogy. "I just don't understand why we can't be happy with being Computer Programmers." Because if you ask 5 people you'll get 8 different descriptions of what "Computer Programmer" means. Which is fine, because it leads to discussion, and that's where analogy and metaphor come in handy to explain a point of view.
- brown9-2 17y agoI think it's foolish to refrain from making an argument or analogy because others might misinterpret or misuse it.