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As a note, I decided to look up CF based on this comment. This lead me to cloudfoundry.org, which appears entirely devoid of content. Just useless talk about "h

As a note, I decided to look up CF based on this comment. This lead me to cloudfoundry.org, which appears entirely devoid of content. Just useless talk about "heavyweights" and so on. The menu didn't appear to have any links to anything useful either. Clicking on products lead to a page with three product names. Having visited the site, I'm actually now negatively disposed towards it (but your comment outweighs my experience, and I'll still attempt to check it out). Granted I only spent a minute, but if this is a typical experience, I'm unsure how anyone would come to the conclusion that there's any software worth using there.

jacques_chester 11y ago
Frankly, I agree with you. We suck at developer outreach. It bugs me. Unless you know where to find the docs[0], they're not obvious. There's a single master repo[1], but it's oriented at deployment and works by aggregating dozens of sub-projects[2] into a BOSH release and BOSH deployment. ... which requires you to know what the hell BOSH[3] is ... So recently we started trying to make it easier. The best place to start tinkering is Lattice[4], which is a cutdown extract of Cloud Foundry. or Pivotal Web Services[5]. Or IBM BlueMix, I guess[6]. [0] http://docs.cloudfoundry.org/ http://docs.cloudfoundry.org/ [1] https://github.com/cloudfoundry/cf-release https://github.com/cloudfoundry/cf-release [2] https://github.com/cloudfoundry https://github.com/cloudfoundry and https://github.com/cloudfoundry-incubator https://github.com/cloudfoundry-incubator [3] http://bosh.io/docs http://bosh.io/docs [4] http://lattice.cf/docs http://lattice.cf/docs [5] https://run.pivotal.io/ https://run.pivotal.io/ [6] https://console.ng.bluemix.net/ https://console.ng.bluemix.net/
- MichaelGG 11y ago
  Thanks for the links, much appreciated! How does CF compare to go.cd? Will there be a lot of setup work required?
  - jacques_chester 11y ago
    go.cd fills a different role. Funnily enough go.cd was the main CI system used for Cloud Foundry, though it's being steadily replaced by concourse.ci. Cloud Foundry is a bear to install because you will probably wind up needing to wrap your head around BOSH, the IaaS orchestration tool. Once you get past that hump it's relatively obvious. Getting past the hump is tough. Bear in mind that it's a complete PaaS. The kind of thing you bet your company on (and our customers do). BOSH is a heavyweight system that predates a lot of later tools like Terraform or Cloud Formation. On the other hand, we use BOSH to update Pivotal Web Services to the latest cf-release every 2 weeks or so and basically, nobody ever notices. It just works. The easiest way to start is either Lattice or a public Cloud Foundry installation. The former has the advantage of being easy to install on a laptop, and it's intended for developers to tinker with. The latter has the advantage that someone else ran `bosh deploy` and is provisioning the VMs that Cloud Foundry runs on. Pivotal Web Service (based on AWS) and IBM BlueMix (based on SoftLayer, I think) are the two main ones.
    - vacri 11y ago
      > Getting past the hump is tough. So... it's not a solved problem after all? :)
      - jacques_chester 11y ago
        Oh you :) You only have to install CF once, not every time you deploy. After that it's easy to upgrade. We do so on Pivotal Web Services every time cf-release is incremented, which is approximately fortnightly.
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jdiez17 11y ago
I just had exactly the same experience. I even went to Platform->Documentation and now I'm even more confused. A page describing what exactly the platform is would go a long way.

jacques_chester 11y ago

Frankly, I agree with you. We suck at developer outreach. It bugs me. Unless you know where to find the docs[0], they're not obvious. There's a single master repo[1], but it's oriented at deployment and works by aggregating dozens of sub-projects[2] into a BOSH release and BOSH deployment. ... which requires you to know what the hell BOSH[3] is ... So recently we started trying to make it easier. The best place to start tinkering is Lattice[4], which is a cutdown extract of Cloud Foundry. or Pivotal Web Services[5]. Or IBM BlueMix, I guess[6]. [0] http://docs.cloudfoundry.org/ http://docs.cloudfoundry.org/ [1] https://github.com/cloudfoundry/cf-release https://github.com/cloudfoundry/cf-release [2] https://github.com/cloudfoundry https://github.com/cloudfoundry and https://github.com/cloudfoundry-incubator https://github.com/cloudfoundry-incubator [3] http://bosh.io/docs http://bosh.io/docs [4] http://lattice.cf/docs http://lattice.cf/docs [5] https://run.pivotal.io/ https://run.pivotal.io/ [6] https://console.ng.bluemix.net/ https://console.ng.bluemix.net/

MichaelGG 11y ago
Thanks for the links, much appreciated! How does CF compare to go.cd? Will there be a lot of setup work required?
- jacques_chester 11y ago
  go.cd fills a different role. Funnily enough go.cd was the main CI system used for Cloud Foundry, though it's being steadily replaced by concourse.ci. Cloud Foundry is a bear to install because you will probably wind up needing to wrap your head around BOSH, the IaaS orchestration tool. Once you get past that hump it's relatively obvious. Getting past the hump is tough. Bear in mind that it's a complete PaaS. The kind of thing you bet your company on (and our customers do). BOSH is a heavyweight system that predates a lot of later tools like Terraform or Cloud Formation. On the other hand, we use BOSH to update Pivotal Web Services to the latest cf-release every 2 weeks or so and basically, nobody ever notices. It just works. The easiest way to start is either Lattice or a public Cloud Foundry installation. The former has the advantage of being easy to install on a laptop, and it's intended for developers to tinker with. The latter has the advantage that someone else ran `bosh deploy` and is provisioning the VMs that Cloud Foundry runs on. Pivotal Web Service (based on AWS) and IBM BlueMix (based on SoftLayer, I think) are the two main ones.
  - vacri 11y ago
    > Getting past the hump is tough. So... it's not a solved problem after all? :)
    - jacques_chester 11y ago
      Oh you :) You only have to install CF once, not every time you deploy. After that it's easy to upgrade. We do so on Pivotal Web Services every time cf-release is incremented, which is approximately fortnightly.

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jdiez17 11y ago

I just had exactly the same experience. I even went to Platform->Documentation and now I'm even more confused. A page describing what exactly the platform is would go a long way.