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There are less prospective university applicants in Germany because of their tiered and somewhat controversial secondary education system. It does not have anyt

There are less prospective university applicants in Germany because of their tiered and somewhat controversial secondary education system. It does not have anything to do with tuition fees. As for tuition fees, you can make a completely tax funded third level education system work. Developing countries do it all the time, successfully. You do this by restricting entrance to the brightest through a harsh selection process. The problem with this is that in the long run you end up with a large percentage of the population who has only minimal education. People might sneer at somebody with a degree in English Literature but it does make a difference to live in a country where the majority have some tertiary level education experience, if only because they appreciate education more and can instil that sort of appreciation in their kids.

lispm 11y ago
Well skilled people in Germany are found in many professions. In the UK less so. For example apprenticeships are not widely supported as in Germany. Go to Siemens, these people will work with the latest machines, materials and processes. They will get a dual education: work and school. If they want they can make their 'Meister' and go to the University: http://www.hochschulkompass.de/studium/suche/studieren-ohne-abitur.html http://www.hochschulkompass.de/studium/suche/studieren-ohne-... That there has to be ways for people to go to University who have not been at a Gymnasium, this idea is not unknown in Germany. ;-)
- solistice 11y ago
  Especially since students from a Hauptschule can do their 10th grade and students from a Realschule can get into the Gymnasiale Oberstufe as well as people being aged out of those options being able to do their Abitur at a later time.
endzone 11y ago
i would contend it makes very little difference because of the naturally limited fraction of the population with the ability to benefit from post secondary education.
Mithaldu 11y ago
> somewhat controversial secondary education system {{citation}} I'm a german, have gone through gymnasium and have a sibling who didn't, and many other family members who went through either of the three tracks. I have never heard anyone complain and am not aware of any controversy whatsoever, especially since students are provided ample opportunity to switch tracks at multiple points, and upgrade after the fact. Please provide reference to this controversy you claim.
- kuschku 11y ago
  As a German, there is a huuge controversy about it. - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regionale_Schule https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regionale_Schule - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesamtschule https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesamtschule - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profiloberstufe https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profiloberstufe The whole discussion about it even led to some states abolishing the old system and introducing "Gesamtschulen mit gymnasialer Oberstufe", essentially, the US middle/high-school system. In other places, the Profiloberstufe was introduced. In even other places, in the same city, Gesamtschulen, Regionalschulen, G8, G9, Profiloberstufe AND erweitertes Kurssystem exist next to each other!
  - Mithaldu 11y ago
    That's not a huge controversy. A huge controversy is when you have people actually arguing about it. This looks like a few places experimenting. > Profiloberstufe This is a cost-saving measure. > Regionale Schule This doesn't include Gymnasium. > Gesamtschule This comes close, but effectively is just a school that combines all three tracks into one, with different students leaving at different grades. Notably it also has a reduced quality of education. > some states abolishing the old system "Abolishing"? Really? Which Bundesland has verboten solitary Gymnasiums? I couldn't see it in the article about Gesamtschule and google also didn't give me anything.
    - kuschku 11y ago
      Some states forbid Hauptschule and Realschule, and some states forbid G9 and/or Kursoberstufe. It’s quite a large debate.

lispm 11y ago

Well skilled people in Germany are found in many professions. In the UK less so. For example apprenticeships are not widely supported as in Germany. Go to Siemens, these people will work with the latest machines, materials and processes. They will get a dual education: work and school. If they want they can make their 'Meister' and go to the University: http://www.hochschulkompass.de/studium/suche/studieren-ohne-abitur.html http://www.hochschulkompass.de/studium/suche/studieren-ohne-... That there has to be ways for people to go to University who have not been at a Gymnasium, this idea is not unknown in Germany. ;-)

solistice 11y ago
Especially since students from a Hauptschule can do their 10th grade and students from a Realschule can get into the Gymnasiale Oberstufe as well as people being aged out of those options being able to do their Abitur at a later time.

endzone 11y ago

i would contend it makes very little difference because of the naturally limited fraction of the population with the ability to benefit from post secondary education.

Mithaldu 11y ago

> somewhat controversial secondary education system {{citation}} I'm a german, have gone through gymnasium and have a sibling who didn't, and many other family members who went through either of the three tracks. I have never heard anyone complain and am not aware of any controversy whatsoever, especially since students are provided ample opportunity to switch tracks at multiple points, and upgrade after the fact. Please provide reference to this controversy you claim.

kuschku 11y ago
As a German, there is a huuge controversy about it. - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regionale_Schule https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regionale_Schule - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesamtschule https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesamtschule - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profiloberstufe https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profiloberstufe The whole discussion about it even led to some states abolishing the old system and introducing "Gesamtschulen mit gymnasialer Oberstufe", essentially, the US middle/high-school system. In other places, the Profiloberstufe was introduced. In even other places, in the same city, Gesamtschulen, Regionalschulen, G8, G9, Profiloberstufe AND erweitertes Kurssystem exist next to each other!
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  That's not a huge controversy. A huge controversy is when you have people actually arguing about it. This looks like a few places experimenting. > Profiloberstufe This is a cost-saving measure. > Regionale Schule This doesn't include Gymnasium. > Gesamtschule This comes close, but effectively is just a school that combines all three tracks into one, with different students leaving at different grades. Notably it also has a reduced quality of education. > some states abolishing the old system "Abolishing"? Really? Which Bundesland has verboten solitary Gymnasiums? I couldn't see it in the article about Gesamtschule and google also didn't give me anything.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    Some states forbid Hauptschule and Realschule, and some states forbid G9 and/or Kursoberstufe. It’s quite a large debate.