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Slightly OT: I wonder what will happen when marijuna becomes legal across the nation and body cameras are more widely used? Will there be a reduction in overal

Slightly OT: I wonder what will happen when marijuna becomes legal across the nation and body cameras are more widely used? Will there be a reduction in overall prison population, will people get better representation due to video evidence, will there be less bad apple cops? All of these may become true to varying degrees. It will be interesting to see how we as a society handle these issues in the future.

newjersey 11y ago
I remember an incident where a police car hit the car in front of it in slow speed. Other police officers arrived on the scene and basically told the officer to stay quiet and tried to pin the incident on the woman driving the car ahead. All of this was recorded by the police dashboard camera. Now, you'd think I am trying to say that dashboard cameras are great and the problem is solved when police officers have to carry body cameras. Well, no. It is not even half the battle. Even if we get a system where we trust a police officer's words the same as that of an accused, the defendant still needs to have legal support that will work hard to get the footage and more importantly a police force that is willing to work with defendants in giving them the evidence the defense needs to undermine the prosecution's case. The main problem is the blue code of silence where police officers fear speaking out against other police officers for fear of retaliation. I am afraid this is a systemic problem with no easy solution. Who watches the watchers? Edit: Here is some more details on the case. From NBC Miami http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Cops-Set-Up-Woman-After-Crash.html http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Cops-Set-Up-Woman-After-C... > The disturbing video shows Alexandra Torrensvilas, 23, handcuffed in the back of the squad car as the officers get their stories straight on what they are going to say happened. > Officer Joel Francisco, 36, an 11-year veteran, crashed into the back of Torrensvilas' vehicle at a light on February 17 at midnight. The cop radioed to other officers who converged on the scene and hatched a way to bail Francisco out. > Officer Dewey Pressley, 42, arrives and questions Torrensvilas, who tells him that she has been drinking. The 21-year veteran officer seizes the opportunity and arrests her for DUI. But the plot thickens from there. > The cops begin to brainstorm believable excuses for the accident. From http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/crime-law/two-fired-hollywood-cops-jailed-charged-with-fal-1/nL7Td/ http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/crime-law/two-fired-h... > Pressley, a Hollywood police officer for 22 years, and Francisco were fired in January. So were three other Police Department employees who were at the crash scene: Sgt. Andrew Diaz, Community Service Officer Karim Thomas and crime scene technician Andrea Tomassi, none of whom have been charged in the case. From http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-04-09/news/fl-disney-cop-guilty-plea-20120409_1_alexandra-torrens-vilas-dewey-pressley-plea-deal http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-04-09/news/fl-disney-c... > Neither Pressley nor Francisco mentioned in their written incident reports that Francisco was on his cellphone at the time of the crash. Both mentioned the cat. > Pressley was acquitted of official misconduct, a felony, but convicted of falsifying records. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail and is free pending appeal. > Francisco's deal matches the jury decision and the sentence in the Pressley case. Had he been convicted of all charges at trial, Francisco would have faced nearly 30 years in prison. It seems like Lawyer larence Meltzer represented the accused in this case of State v. Alexandra Torrens-Vilas according to http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/33316-fl-lawrence-meltzer-1293731.html http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/33316-fl-lawrence-meltzer-1293... . Do you imagine the state would volunteer this dash cam tape if it had fallen on a overworked public defendant?
- graycat 11y ago
  Easy solution: Put me on the jury. A police officer testifies and right away I assume he's lying, because he can get away with it, because he likes the ego boost, because he has given up his personal integrity, because of the "blue code" of whatever, because he gets his jollies sticking people, whatever. A police officer has less credibility than the defendant. Similarly for prosecutor expert witnesses, police forensics, police crime lab work, etc. In front of me, super tough, nearly impossible, for a public prosecutor with just police evidence to convict anyone of anything. The prosecutor would be wise never to use any evidence that in any way had anything to do with the police. Get some other, solid, clearly objective evidence or the defendant goes free. And for statistical evidence, I know some statistics, at an advanced level, and doubt that there is a single prosecutor in the country who could even once put on statistical evidence that I would find less than just fraudulent. E.g., lie detectors, finger prints, and much more -- garbage. DNA? Not from a crime lab. As soon as the prosecutor or one of their witnesses mentions prior police record of the defendant, the defendant goes free. Why? Constitutional protection against two convictions, or or even two trials, for the same event. The issue is what the defendant did as charged this time -- whatever they did in the past is just irrelevant. A second trial for an earlier event is unconstitutional and an attempt at what I call fraud and, thus, no more reason to listen to the prosecutor. I call it fraud: On a jury, I get to call fraud anyway I want, and I don't have to explain. Have the defendant locked up for more than a week without trial? Violates the constitutional guarantee of a speedy trial. Defendant goes free. Defendant injured while in police custody, whether from the police, other people in the jail, or just a brick falling out of the sky, violation of the constitutional guarantee against cruel and unusual punishment and taking the freedom of a person without due process, and the defendant goes free and wins a civil case against the city, etc. Can't take a person's freedom, not even for a day, without taking care of them, e.g., having a social worker inform all their family, make sure their house is secure and their kitty cat fed, etc. Fail to do that, and that violates the constitutional guarantee against cruel and unusual punishment and also punishment without due process -- defendant goes free. There is an easy solution -- put me on the jury. Then when the defendant goes free and brings a civil case against the prosecutor and police, tough for the former defendant to lose that case. Have the city, whatever, pay them the $5 million or whatever. Net, in front of me, the police, prosecutors, etc. have to clean up their act, scrub 100% clean, at least as in the Constitution, or the defendants will go free, just as the founding fathers intended. The police stopped the car because the driver failed to use a turn signal? BS. Likely the police are lying, and in that case the stop was a case of unconstitutional "unreasonable search". That's my view, and on the jury I get to vote that way for any reason or no reason and don't have to explain my reason. A police officer killed an unarmed person? Deliberate, unprovoked, unexcusable murder. Life or the chair. The police have tracked mud all over our Constitution, and it's long time since that was way too much. Defending our Constitution is much of why we want police.
samstave 11y ago
Aside from just body cameras, we need to establish a public oversight system of police conduct review. One that is not a part of the traditional legal system and one that has authority to actually punish police and lawyers and judges for misconduct. The legal system in this regard is utterly failing.
a3n 11y ago
What will happen is prisons will be full of people convicted of other crimes. In some sense, prison capacity limits prison population (notwithstanding unconstitutional overcrowding, which has its own limit). If the prisons were emptied of marijuana convictions, then that would free up space for other convictions. So maybe the way to reduce the prison population is to close some prisons. Not everyone convicted needs to be in prison, and not everyone caught needs to be prosecuted.

newjersey 11y ago

I remember an incident where a police car hit the car in front of it in slow speed. Other police officers arrived on the scene and basically told the officer to stay quiet and tried to pin the incident on the woman driving the car ahead. All of this was recorded by the police dashboard camera. Now, you'd think I am trying to say that dashboard cameras are great and the problem is solved when police officers have to carry body cameras. Well, no. It is not even half the battle. Even if we get a system where we trust a police officer's words the same as that of an accused, the defendant still needs to have legal support that will work hard to get the footage and more importantly a police force that is willing to work with defendants in giving them the evidence the defense needs to undermine the prosecution's case. The main problem is the blue code of silence where police officers fear speaking out against other police officers for fear of retaliation. I am afraid this is a systemic problem with no easy solution. Who watches the watchers? Edit: Here is some more details on the case. From NBC Miami http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Cops-Set-Up-Woman-After-Crash.html http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Cops-Set-Up-Woman-After-C... > The disturbing video shows Alexandra Torrensvilas, 23, handcuffed in the back of the squad car as the officers get their stories straight on what they are going to say happened. > Officer Joel Francisco, 36, an 11-year veteran, crashed into the back of Torrensvilas' vehicle at a light on February 17 at midnight. The cop radioed to other officers who converged on the scene and hatched a way to bail Francisco out. > Officer Dewey Pressley, 42, arrives and questions Torrensvilas, who tells him that she has been drinking. The 21-year veteran officer seizes the opportunity and arrests her for DUI. But the plot thickens from there. > The cops begin to brainstorm believable excuses for the accident. From http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/crime-law/two-fired-hollywood-cops-jailed-charged-with-fal-1/nL7Td/ http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/crime-law/two-fired-h... > Pressley, a Hollywood police officer for 22 years, and Francisco were fired in January. So were three other Police Department employees who were at the crash scene: Sgt. Andrew Diaz, Community Service Officer Karim Thomas and crime scene technician Andrea Tomassi, none of whom have been charged in the case. From http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-04-09/news/fl-disney-cop-guilty-plea-20120409_1_alexandra-torrens-vilas-dewey-pressley-plea-deal http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-04-09/news/fl-disney-c... > Neither Pressley nor Francisco mentioned in their written incident reports that Francisco was on his cellphone at the time of the crash. Both mentioned the cat. > Pressley was acquitted of official misconduct, a felony, but convicted of falsifying records. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail and is free pending appeal. > Francisco's deal matches the jury decision and the sentence in the Pressley case. Had he been convicted of all charges at trial, Francisco would have faced nearly 30 years in prison. It seems like Lawyer larence Meltzer represented the accused in this case of State v. Alexandra Torrens-Vilas according to http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/33316-fl-lawrence-meltzer-1293731.html http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/33316-fl-lawrence-meltzer-1293... . Do you imagine the state would volunteer this dash cam tape if it had fallen on a overworked public defendant?

graycat 11y ago
Easy solution: Put me on the jury. A police officer testifies and right away I assume he's lying, because he can get away with it, because he likes the ego boost, because he has given up his personal integrity, because of the "blue code" of whatever, because he gets his jollies sticking people, whatever. A police officer has less credibility than the defendant. Similarly for prosecutor expert witnesses, police forensics, police crime lab work, etc. In front of me, super tough, nearly impossible, for a public prosecutor with just police evidence to convict anyone of anything. The prosecutor would be wise never to use any evidence that in any way had anything to do with the police. Get some other, solid, clearly objective evidence or the defendant goes free. And for statistical evidence, I know some statistics, at an advanced level, and doubt that there is a single prosecutor in the country who could even once put on statistical evidence that I would find less than just fraudulent. E.g., lie detectors, finger prints, and much more -- garbage. DNA? Not from a crime lab. As soon as the prosecutor or one of their witnesses mentions prior police record of the defendant, the defendant goes free. Why? Constitutional protection against two convictions, or or even two trials, for the same event. The issue is what the defendant did as charged this time -- whatever they did in the past is just irrelevant. A second trial for an earlier event is unconstitutional and an attempt at what I call fraud and, thus, no more reason to listen to the prosecutor. I call it fraud: On a jury, I get to call fraud anyway I want, and I don't have to explain. Have the defendant locked up for more than a week without trial? Violates the constitutional guarantee of a speedy trial. Defendant goes free. Defendant injured while in police custody, whether from the police, other people in the jail, or just a brick falling out of the sky, violation of the constitutional guarantee against cruel and unusual punishment and taking the freedom of a person without due process, and the defendant goes free and wins a civil case against the city, etc. Can't take a person's freedom, not even for a day, without taking care of them, e.g., having a social worker inform all their family, make sure their house is secure and their kitty cat fed, etc. Fail to do that, and that violates the constitutional guarantee against cruel and unusual punishment and also punishment without due process -- defendant goes free. There is an easy solution -- put me on the jury. Then when the defendant goes free and brings a civil case against the prosecutor and police, tough for the former defendant to lose that case. Have the city, whatever, pay them the $5 million or whatever. Net, in front of me, the police, prosecutors, etc. have to clean up their act, scrub 100% clean, at least as in the Constitution, or the defendants will go free, just as the founding fathers intended. The police stopped the car because the driver failed to use a turn signal? BS. Likely the police are lying, and in that case the stop was a case of unconstitutional "unreasonable search". That's my view, and on the jury I get to vote that way for any reason or no reason and don't have to explain my reason. A police officer killed an unarmed person? Deliberate, unprovoked, unexcusable murder. Life or the chair. The police have tracked mud all over our Constitution, and it's long time since that was way too much. Defending our Constitution is much of why we want police.

samstave 11y ago

Aside from just body cameras, we need to establish a public oversight system of police conduct review. One that is not a part of the traditional legal system and one that has authority to actually punish police and lawyers and judges for misconduct. The legal system in this regard is utterly failing.

a3n 11y ago

What will happen is prisons will be full of people convicted of other crimes. In some sense, prison capacity limits prison population (notwithstanding unconstitutional overcrowding, which has its own limit). If the prisons were emptied of marijuana convictions, then that would free up space for other convictions. So maybe the way to reduce the prison population is to close some prisons. Not everyone convicted needs to be in prison, and not everyone caught needs to be prosecuted.