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Good points. Some quibbles: > game units shouldn't necessarily take the shortest path to their goal They shouldn't? This can in specific cases lead to weird

by sago 11y ago

Good points. Some quibbles: > game units shouldn't necessarily take the shortest path to their goal They shouldn't? This can in specific cases lead to weird looking behavior, but nobody is suggesting it is an 'abstract movement strategy' that isn't supposed to correspond to anything a person would do. The reason shortest paths are used is that they do correspond to the way people move, to a first approximation. > simply enough for even beginners to implement Really? Using delaunay triangulation, minimum spanning trees and relaxation? With no sample code? This isn't a beginner tutorial. > can be used as-is in any particular genre of game. Really? You don't think this is specifically for roguelikes/roguelites? > Nethack Nethack definitely has crimes against mimesis too, definitely. In fact it has that 'old adventure' feel. I was using it just to show that the challenge spaces aren't abstract.

fenomas 11y ago
> They shouldn't? This can in specific cases.. "Shouldn't necessarily" means shouldn't in some cases, should in others. The point is that something like a pathfinding algorithm is not meant to distinguish between those cases, just as the worldgen algorithm in this article is clearly not attempting to create genre-specific dungeons. It gives you raw information, which you'd need to refine if you wanted to have a feel that's specific to a given game. > This isn't a beginner tutorial. Beginner gamedev. Is this a distinction that you think negates my argument? It sounds like you're listing up everything in my post that you think people could disagree about. > You don't think this is specifically for roguelikes? Whether it's about roguelikes is neither in evidence nor at issue. The parent post took issue with the article for not making maps that felt like a prison/mine/fortress/etc., and I'm saying it clearly didn't attempt to. > Nethack ... the challenge spaces aren't abstract. Every game is abstract in some ways and not in others. But within that universal truth, Nethack is most definitely not a game that even gestures in the direction of realistic world generation, and is a counterexample to the overall point of your post.

by sago 11y ago

fenomas 11y ago

> They shouldn't? This can in specific cases.. "Shouldn't necessarily" means shouldn't in some cases, should in others. The point is that something like a pathfinding algorithm is not meant to distinguish between those cases, just as the worldgen algorithm in this article is clearly not attempting to create genre-specific dungeons. It gives you raw information, which you'd need to refine if you wanted to have a feel that's specific to a given game. > This isn't a beginner tutorial. Beginner gamedev. Is this a distinction that you think negates my argument? It sounds like you're listing up everything in my post that you think people could disagree about. > You don't think this is specifically for roguelikes? Whether it's about roguelikes is neither in evidence nor at issue. The parent post took issue with the article for not making maps that felt like a prison/mine/fortress/etc., and I'm saying it clearly didn't attempt to. > Nethack ... the challenge spaces aren't abstract. Every game is abstract in some ways and not in others. But within that universal truth, Nethack is most definitely not a game that even gestures in the direction of realistic world generation, and is a counterexample to the overall point of your post.