6 ms·

That is not true. First, Germany has a problem with social support even for Germans, Hartz 4 is horribly low and injust. Financial social support is one of the

by onli 11y ago

That is not true. First, Germany has a problem with social support even for Germans, Hartz 4 is horribly low and injust. Financial social support is one of the problems currently with the immigrants: It is basically non-existant. No EU region has a lower median salary than this. Second, Immigrants are not guests, they are immigrants or fugitives, and possibly supposed to stay. Third, Germany demands nothing new from other countries. It is EU law that they shall be registered in the countries where they arrive, and it is new and a helping offer to allow those fugitives to continue onwards to Germany. Otherwise they would have to stay in the country they arrived in. Given the tone of your comment, I doubt you would prefer that option.

leaveyou 11y ago
You are lying at "Third". Angela Merkel publicly encouraged immigrants to come (and die trying) by promising that Germany will host all the people who arrive in Germany and several days later when the reported numbers of immigrants became alarming, Germany and France announced "a plan" (IMPOSSED behind scenes) to distribute the immigrants to other EU states because "solidarity and bla bla bla". That is extremely unfair to other EU states who can't afford the high and long term costs of Merkel's declarations and looking at the lost lives, insanely irresponsible.
- moe 11y ago
  Angela Merkel publicly encouraged immigrants to come Bullshit.
  - generic_user 11y ago
    The EU has been encouraging migration for years for there supposed 'demographic crisis'. This is reported on regally in the press if you care to research.
    - moe 11y ago
      The EU has been encouraging migration for years for there supposed 'demographic crisis' Oh, so now it's not Merkel but the EU. This is reported on regally in the press if you care to research. I'm not the one making bullshit claims here. The onus is on you to name your sources.
      - generic_user 11y ago
        Merkel has been playing out her Imigration dramas for years now (along with the EU). I am not very compeled to to dig up storys they are numerous and well known. Perhaps one of Her most melodramatic epasodes was "Islam 'belongs to Germany'". That will perhaps be here defining Utterance for better or worse. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/12/us-germany-islam-merkel-idUSKBN0KL1S020150112 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/12/us-germany-islam-m...
        moe 11y ago
        And there we have your true colors.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        generic_user 11y ago
        I think its quite clear the call for immigrants is not 'bull shit' but a well known fact. The question is who it the Labyrinthine EU bureaucracy is responsible for this disastrous romantic policy?
  - leaveyou 11y ago
    www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/25/angela-merkel-visit-asylum-shelter-attacks The government has announced a relaxing of the Dublin agreement, under which refugees are supposed to be sent back to the country in which they entered the EU to apply for asylum. Many war refugees, particularly from Syria, were being sent back to Italy and Greece. Germany has now said it will process the majority of such claims. Merkel’s deputy and economics minister, Sigmar Gabriel, and the foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, both of the Social Democrats, a junior partner in Germany’s coalition government, have proposed a 10-point plan for Europe’s response to the refugee crisis. The pair called for a unified EU-wide response including fair distribution of refugees across Europe. “As Europeans we owe it to ourselves and to the world to rise to the great challenge posed by these people looking for help,” they wrote. “We must pursue a European asylum, refugee and migration policy that is founded on the principle of solidarity and our shared values of humanity.” http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/26/us-europe-migrants-merkel-idUSKCN0QV1LL20150826 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/26/us-europe-migrants... "There is no tolerance for those people who question the dignity of others, no tolerance for those who are not willing to help where legal and human help is required," Merkel told reporters and local people in the town of Heidenau. "The more people who make that clear ... the stronger we will be," she said, offering a message of support to those who have suffered abuse.
    - moe 11y ago
      The pair called for a unified EU-wide response including fair distribution of refugees across Europe. We must pursue a European asylum, refugee and migration policy that is founded on the principle of solidarity and our shared values of humanity I don't understand. Which of your quotes "encouraged immigrants to come"? "There is no tolerance for those people who question the dignity of others, no tolerance for those who are not willing to help where legal and human help is required" And what is wrong with this last quote in particular? Does it hit too close to your home?
      - leaveyou 11y ago
        I provided the context and now you argue about the context instead of the main point: Merkel was sending positive messages to mobs of people who were trespassing borders of multiple EU and non-EU countries causing chaos. Refugees or immigrants, illegal immigration is still ILLEGAL. Merkel and her government directly and/or indirectly encouraged illegalities against other countries instead of discouraging them by guiding the real refugees to the legal channels of asylum request. I don't like your way of debating. I stop here. Have a nice day.
- jpfr 11y ago
  > You are lying at "Third". Angela Merkel publicly encouraged immigrants to come (and die trying) by promising that Germany will host all the people who arrive in Germany and several days later when the reported numbers of immigrants became alarming, Germany and France announced "a plan" (IMPOSSED behind scenes) to distribute the immigrants to other EU states because "solidarity and bla bla bla". Refugees arriving in Germany have the right to demand asylum. They have that right in every EU country. But they may be denied asylum (after some months of processing and living in a shelter) if they do not flee from a humanitarian crisis.
danbruc 11y ago
A bit of nitpicking - it is a common misconception that the Dublin regulations simply demand that refugees have to get registered and then ask for asylum in the country they arrive at first. There is actually a list of rules and this commonly cited one is not the only one and not the one with the highest priority. There are for example rules for going to where relatives are already living or for countries voluntarily accepting refugees they would not otherwise be responsible for.
- onli 11y ago
  Thanks for pointing that out, I was not aware of that.
jpfr 11y ago
> First, Germany has a problem with social support even for Germans, Hartz 4 is horribly low and injust. Hartz 4 (long-term unemplyment aid) is basically what the country can sustainably pay without getting into the same debt spiral of Greece, etc. It's enough to survive, but not much more. > Financial social support is one of the problems currently with the immigrants: It is basically non-existant. No EU region has a lower median salary than this. During the processing of their asyl request, immigrants get money for housing, food, basic medical services and 140 Euro/month for leisure. Once their asyl request is accepted, they are entitled to the same social aid as any German. But you need to see money in context. Other European countries have a much lower cost of living. > Second, Immigrants are not guests, they are immigrants or fugitives, and possibly supposed to stay. Immigrants who are not fleeing from a humanitarian crisis get denied asyl and are expelled.
- erikb 11y ago
  Greetings from a German. While everybody discusses if Germany can afford fugitives and Hartz 4, some more realistic newspapers post that German rich have become richer and richer over the last 5 years. Until now Germany is probably one of the countries that gained the most from this century's crises. It's just that it's not shared properly between all people. Old, sick and unemployed probably have lost since 2010 because of politics not because of economic crisis.
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  >> First, Germany has a problem with social support even for Germans, Hartz 4 is horribly low and injust. >Hartz 4 (long-term unemplyment aid) is basically what the country can sustainably pay Pretty much. The deal with Hartz 4 is that it is a basic income that applies to every adult (children get a special deal), period. Even if you're employed you can apply for it if a certain calculation of your income minus deductions doesn't make the Hartz 4 line. That is a lot of people. Some people do have problems with it however since it's an average. As such, depending on where you are, it will be more or less affordable. In west germany it will be less affordable to love on it than in east germany. In city centers less so than on the fringes or in small communities. I have family members on Hartz 4 in the "poorest" (most economically weak, really) parts of germany and they live VERY comfortably. Where you are determines how "just" you will feel it is. What people generally don't see though is that Hartz 4 is a LOT more than you get in other countries. Germany for example does not have a homeless problem like some other places i see in the news sometimes. And while complaining about Hartz 4 being too low, they also simultaneously complain about taxes being too high.

by onli 11y ago

leaveyou 11y ago

You are lying at "Third". Angela Merkel publicly encouraged immigrants to come (and die trying) by promising that Germany will host all the people who arrive in Germany and several days later when the reported numbers of immigrants became alarming, Germany and France announced "a plan" (IMPOSSED behind scenes) to distribute the immigrants to other EU states because "solidarity and bla bla bla". That is extremely unfair to other EU states who can't afford the high and long term costs of Merkel's declarations and looking at the lost lives, insanely irresponsible.

moe 11y ago
Angela Merkel publicly encouraged immigrants to come Bullshit.
- generic_user 11y ago
  The EU has been encouraging migration for years for there supposed 'demographic crisis'. This is reported on regally in the press if you care to research.
  - moe 11y ago
    The EU has been encouraging migration for years for there supposed 'demographic crisis' Oh, so now it's not Merkel but the EU. This is reported on regally in the press if you care to research. I'm not the one making bullshit claims here. The onus is on you to name your sources.
    - generic_user 11y ago
      Merkel has been playing out her Imigration dramas for years now (along with the EU). I am not very compeled to to dig up storys they are numerous and well known. Perhaps one of Her most melodramatic epasodes was "Islam 'belongs to Germany'". That will perhaps be here defining Utterance for better or worse. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/12/us-germany-islam-merkel-idUSKBN0KL1S020150112 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/12/us-germany-islam-m...
      - moe 11y ago
        And there we have your true colors.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        generic_user 11y ago
        I think its quite clear the call for immigrants is not 'bull shit' but a well known fact. The question is who it the Labyrinthine EU bureaucracy is responsible for this disastrous romantic policy?
- leaveyou 11y ago
  www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/25/angela-merkel-visit-asylum-shelter-attacks The government has announced a relaxing of the Dublin agreement, under which refugees are supposed to be sent back to the country in which they entered the EU to apply for asylum. Many war refugees, particularly from Syria, were being sent back to Italy and Greece. Germany has now said it will process the majority of such claims. Merkel’s deputy and economics minister, Sigmar Gabriel, and the foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, both of the Social Democrats, a junior partner in Germany’s coalition government, have proposed a 10-point plan for Europe’s response to the refugee crisis. The pair called for a unified EU-wide response including fair distribution of refugees across Europe. “As Europeans we owe it to ourselves and to the world to rise to the great challenge posed by these people looking for help,” they wrote. “We must pursue a European asylum, refugee and migration policy that is founded on the principle of solidarity and our shared values of humanity.” http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/26/us-europe-migrants-merkel-idUSKCN0QV1LL20150826 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/26/us-europe-migrants... "There is no tolerance for those people who question the dignity of others, no tolerance for those who are not willing to help where legal and human help is required," Merkel told reporters and local people in the town of Heidenau. "The more people who make that clear ... the stronger we will be," she said, offering a message of support to those who have suffered abuse.
  - moe 11y ago
    The pair called for a unified EU-wide response including fair distribution of refugees across Europe. We must pursue a European asylum, refugee and migration policy that is founded on the principle of solidarity and our shared values of humanity I don't understand. Which of your quotes "encouraged immigrants to come"? "There is no tolerance for those people who question the dignity of others, no tolerance for those who are not willing to help where legal and human help is required" And what is wrong with this last quote in particular? Does it hit too close to your home?
    - leaveyou 11y ago
      I provided the context and now you argue about the context instead of the main point: Merkel was sending positive messages to mobs of people who were trespassing borders of multiple EU and non-EU countries causing chaos. Refugees or immigrants, illegal immigration is still ILLEGAL. Merkel and her government directly and/or indirectly encouraged illegalities against other countries instead of discouraging them by guiding the real refugees to the legal channels of asylum request. I don't like your way of debating. I stop here. Have a nice day.
jpfr 11y ago
> You are lying at "Third". Angela Merkel publicly encouraged immigrants to come (and die trying) by promising that Germany will host all the people who arrive in Germany and several days later when the reported numbers of immigrants became alarming, Germany and France announced "a plan" (IMPOSSED behind scenes) to distribute the immigrants to other EU states because "solidarity and bla bla bla". Refugees arriving in Germany have the right to demand asylum. They have that right in every EU country. But they may be denied asylum (after some months of processing and living in a shelter) if they do not flee from a humanitarian crisis.

danbruc 11y ago

A bit of nitpicking - it is a common misconception that the Dublin regulations simply demand that refugees have to get registered and then ask for asylum in the country they arrive at first. There is actually a list of rules and this commonly cited one is not the only one and not the one with the highest priority. There are for example rules for going to where relatives are already living or for countries voluntarily accepting refugees they would not otherwise be responsible for.

onli 11y ago
Thanks for pointing that out, I was not aware of that.

jpfr 11y ago

> First, Germany has a problem with social support even for Germans, Hartz 4 is horribly low and injust. Hartz 4 (long-term unemplyment aid) is basically what the country can sustainably pay without getting into the same debt spiral of Greece, etc. It's enough to survive, but not much more. > Financial social support is one of the problems currently with the immigrants: It is basically non-existant. No EU region has a lower median salary than this. During the processing of their asyl request, immigrants get money for housing, food, basic medical services and 140 Euro/month for leisure. Once their asyl request is accepted, they are entitled to the same social aid as any German. But you need to see money in context. Other European countries have a much lower cost of living. > Second, Immigrants are not guests, they are immigrants or fugitives, and possibly supposed to stay. Immigrants who are not fleeing from a humanitarian crisis get denied asyl and are expelled.

erikb 11y ago
Greetings from a German. While everybody discusses if Germany can afford fugitives and Hartz 4, some more realistic newspapers post that German rich have become richer and richer over the last 5 years. Until now Germany is probably one of the countries that gained the most from this century's crises. It's just that it's not shared properly between all people. Old, sick and unemployed probably have lost since 2010 because of politics not because of economic crisis.
Mithaldu 11y ago
>> First, Germany has a problem with social support even for Germans, Hartz 4 is horribly low and injust. >Hartz 4 (long-term unemplyment aid) is basically what the country can sustainably pay Pretty much. The deal with Hartz 4 is that it is a basic income that applies to every adult (children get a special deal), period. Even if you're employed you can apply for it if a certain calculation of your income minus deductions doesn't make the Hartz 4 line. That is a lot of people. Some people do have problems with it however since it's an average. As such, depending on where you are, it will be more or less affordable. In west germany it will be less affordable to love on it than in east germany. In city centers less so than on the fringes or in small communities. I have family members on Hartz 4 in the "poorest" (most economically weak, really) parts of germany and they live VERY comfortably. Where you are determines how "just" you will feel it is. What people generally don't see though is that Hartz 4 is a LOT more than you get in other countries. Germany for example does not have a homeless problem like some other places i see in the news sometimes. And while complaining about Hartz 4 being too low, they also simultaneously complain about taxes being too high.