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Show HN: Zen Timer – Mac app using Bézier paths to draw a tree

xixixao 11y ago
Love the idea. I imagine the tree could be more organic and interesting though. Lots of animations have beautiful growing trees, maybe I'm thinking of Braid?
- binaryapparatus 11y ago
  Hi, Zen Timer developer here. We do have plans to introduce new algorithms and leaf shapes over time. It is very easy to customize app as it is but with introduction of more different algorithms tree shape will be even more unique. Right now algorithm makes sure that each tree has unique shape, introducing drift and wind as random math parameters. Thanks for your thoughts!
fsloth 11y ago
As a helpful criticism: Great idea, but the execution needs improvement. To my eyes the tree visualization is a good pre-alpha proof of concept but now it should be productized. I.e. the growth looks like simple parenting, the leafs are mostly awkward, etc. It does not look like a tree.
- binaryapparatus 11y ago
  Thanks. We have spend lots of time balancing between very rudimentary and over-designed trees. We think this is the right balance but we listen what people have to say.
wingerlang 11y ago
Not totally unique. I saw this app just some day ago: http://www.forestapp.cc/ http://www.forestapp.cc/
- binaryapparatus 11y ago
  Thanks. I didn't know about that app before. It seems they are using prefabricated graphics vs algorithm and drawing that we do. Looks like nice app.
obstbraende 11y ago
one more helpful criticism: the 'epic' music in your video, for me at least, evokes the opposite of a zen-like, concentrated state. it brings up images of action movies, war scenes or documentaries about bridges.
- binaryapparatus 11y ago
  Thanks. You got us there and you are completely right. Truth is we at SmartCodeHQ are complete suckers when dramatic video shows up. What can I say, this was one of the examples we looked at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSye3T6FQZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSye3T6FQZs
Theodores 11y ago
Some solutions are to imaginary problems, has to be said though that none of the trees outside my window look anything like the 'bushes' shown here!
jlemberg 11y ago
I made a similar demo too with the HTML canvas http://yangcanvas.com/randomtrees http://yangcanvas.com/randomtrees
- binaryapparatus 11y ago
  Hi jlemberg. That's one nice demo and we seem to share algorithm at its root. <- yeah.
- jlarocco 11y ago
  What's with the final one pixel "branch" sprouting out of the tree at the end, after the leaves fill in? Bug?
pbowyer 11y ago
Are there good, researched algorithms for natural looking plant growth? I have hankered after creating a growing vine for years, but nothing looks natural (vs extending vectors)
- theoh 11y ago
  Prusinkiewicz did some good work in the 1990s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przemysław_Prusinkiewicz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przemysław_Prusinkiewicz http://algorithmicbotany.org/ http://algorithmicbotany.org/
- fsloth 11y ago
  I think the typically referenced softwares in this space are X Frog and SpeedTree. The developers of XFrog have a few references listed: http://xfrog.com/company/about/ http://xfrog.com/company/about/ http://graphics.uni-konstanz.de/publikationen/1998/creating_plants_cgforum/Lintermann%20et%20al.%20--%20A%20Modeling%20Method%20and%20User%20Interface%20for%20Creating%20Plants.pdf http://graphics.uni-konstanz.de/publikationen/1998/creating_... (A Modelling method and user interface for creating plants, Lintermann et. all.) http://graphics.uni-konstanz.de/publikationen/1998/plant_ecosystems/Deussen%20et%20al.%20--%20Realistic%20Modeling%20and%20Rendering%20of%20Plant%20Ecosystems.pdf http://graphics.uni-konstanz.de/publikationen/1998/plant_eco... (Realistic modeling and rendering of plant ecosystems, Deussen et. all.)
binarymax 11y ago
Very nice! Reminds me of a small project I did a while ago (minus the pomodoro part): http://binarymax.com/tree.html http://binarymax.com/tree.html
- binaryapparatus 11y ago
  Thanks binarymax! Yeah I can recognize the algorithm, very nice. We wanted something different from progress rings while doing pomodori. There is ton of things that can be added too, this is just a start. Always a careful tradeoff between realistic rendering, speed and minimalistic approach that Apple uses lately. One year ago Zen Timer would be much more skeuomorphic.
ApolloRising 11y ago
I just bought this for fun from the appstore in order to support you guys. Maybe I'm missing something but there is no menubar item to show you a small representation of how much of the tree has left to grow. I would also like to ask you what windowless mode is supposed to do exactly?
- binaryapparatus 11y ago
  Hi ApolloRising. We don't have menu bar item by design but it is easy to add if there is good reason to have one. We wanted to avoid people checking menu bar instead of working -- preferred way is to hide controls during work phase and get 'fuzzy' idea of time left by checking at tree growth. Windowless mode is turned on in Preferences -> General -> Use transparent window. That way you can leave tree somewhere so it looks as part of the desktop (depends a lot on your wallpaper). I personally use windowless mode, move controls up, then stick a tree on second monitor, few pixels below the bottom so it looks like it is growing from the bottom edge of the screen. Please let us know more using contact form on our site. Edit: Many thanks for your support of course :)
  - ApolloRising 11y ago
    Not sure if it is because I am running 10.9 (latest) or that I am using multiple monitors but there may be a bug in windowless mode since once I check the box it vanishes and is not available on any of the 2 monitors I am using. (Macbook pro 2014 retina). If you want I can send you a few screenshots to illustrate.
    - binaryapparatus 11y ago
      Please do contact us if this does not help: When you switch from or to windowless mode app window does not change position at all, it only becomes transparent or not. Zen Timer uses normal window so it has to be visible in Mission Control. As a last resort, you can use 'Center and Reset Position' menu option that can be found in Window menu when Zen Timer has the focus.
- mangeletti 11y ago

Love the idea. I imagine the tree could be more organic and interesting though. Lots of animations have beautiful growing trees, maybe I'm thinking of Braid?

binaryapparatus 11y ago
Hi, Zen Timer developer here. We do have plans to introduce new algorithms and leaf shapes over time. It is very easy to customize app as it is but with introduction of more different algorithms tree shape will be even more unique. Right now algorithm makes sure that each tree has unique shape, introducing drift and wind as random math parameters. Thanks for your thoughts!

fsloth 11y ago

As a helpful criticism: Great idea, but the execution needs improvement. To my eyes the tree visualization is a good pre-alpha proof of concept but now it should be productized. I.e. the growth looks like simple parenting, the leafs are mostly awkward, etc. It does not look like a tree.

binaryapparatus 11y ago
Thanks. We have spend lots of time balancing between very rudimentary and over-designed trees. We think this is the right balance but we listen what people have to say.

wingerlang 11y ago

Not totally unique. I saw this app just some day ago: http://www.forestapp.cc/ http://www.forestapp.cc/

binaryapparatus 11y ago
Thanks. I didn't know about that app before. It seems they are using prefabricated graphics vs algorithm and drawing that we do. Looks like nice app.

obstbraende 11y ago

one more helpful criticism: the 'epic' music in your video, for me at least, evokes the opposite of a zen-like, concentrated state. it brings up images of action movies, war scenes or documentaries about bridges.

binaryapparatus 11y ago
Thanks. You got us there and you are completely right. Truth is we at SmartCodeHQ are complete suckers when dramatic video shows up. What can I say, this was one of the examples we looked at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSye3T6FQZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSye3T6FQZs

Theodores 11y ago

Some solutions are to imaginary problems, has to be said though that none of the trees outside my window look anything like the 'bushes' shown here!

jlemberg 11y ago

I made a similar demo too with the HTML canvas http://yangcanvas.com/randomtrees http://yangcanvas.com/randomtrees

binaryapparatus 11y ago
Hi jlemberg. That's one nice demo and we seem to share algorithm at its root. <- yeah.
jlarocco 11y ago
What's with the final one pixel "branch" sprouting out of the tree at the end, after the leaves fill in? Bug?

pbowyer 11y ago

Are there good, researched algorithms for natural looking plant growth? I have hankered after creating a growing vine for years, but nothing looks natural (vs extending vectors)

theoh 11y ago
Prusinkiewicz did some good work in the 1990s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przemysław_Prusinkiewicz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przemysław_Prusinkiewicz http://algorithmicbotany.org/ http://algorithmicbotany.org/
fsloth 11y ago
I think the typically referenced softwares in this space are X Frog and SpeedTree. The developers of XFrog have a few references listed: http://xfrog.com/company/about/ http://xfrog.com/company/about/ http://graphics.uni-konstanz.de/publikationen/1998/creating_plants_cgforum/Lintermann%20et%20al.%20--%20A%20Modeling%20Method%20and%20User%20Interface%20for%20Creating%20Plants.pdf http://graphics.uni-konstanz.de/publikationen/1998/creating_... (A Modelling method and user interface for creating plants, Lintermann et. all.) http://graphics.uni-konstanz.de/publikationen/1998/plant_ecosystems/Deussen%20et%20al.%20--%20Realistic%20Modeling%20and%20Rendering%20of%20Plant%20Ecosystems.pdf http://graphics.uni-konstanz.de/publikationen/1998/plant_eco... (Realistic modeling and rendering of plant ecosystems, Deussen et. all.)

binarymax 11y ago

Very nice! Reminds me of a small project I did a while ago (minus the pomodoro part): http://binarymax.com/tree.html http://binarymax.com/tree.html

binaryapparatus 11y ago
Thanks binarymax! Yeah I can recognize the algorithm, very nice. We wanted something different from progress rings while doing pomodori. There is ton of things that can be added too, this is just a start. Always a careful tradeoff between realistic rendering, speed and minimalistic approach that Apple uses lately. One year ago Zen Timer would be much more skeuomorphic.

ApolloRising 11y ago

I just bought this for fun from the appstore in order to support you guys. Maybe I'm missing something but there is no menubar item to show you a small representation of how much of the tree has left to grow. I would also like to ask you what windowless mode is supposed to do exactly?

binaryapparatus 11y ago
Hi ApolloRising. We don't have menu bar item by design but it is easy to add if there is good reason to have one. We wanted to avoid people checking menu bar instead of working -- preferred way is to hide controls during work phase and get 'fuzzy' idea of time left by checking at tree growth. Windowless mode is turned on in Preferences -> General -> Use transparent window. That way you can leave tree somewhere so it looks as part of the desktop (depends a lot on your wallpaper). I personally use windowless mode, move controls up, then stick a tree on second monitor, few pixels below the bottom so it looks like it is growing from the bottom edge of the screen. Please let us know more using contact form on our site. Edit: Many thanks for your support of course :)
- ApolloRising 11y ago
  Not sure if it is because I am running 10.9 (latest) or that I am using multiple monitors but there may be a bug in windowless mode since once I check the box it vanishes and is not available on any of the 2 monitors I am using. (Macbook pro 2014 retina). If you want I can send you a few screenshots to illustrate.
  - binaryapparatus 11y ago
    Please do contact us if this does not help: When you switch from or to windowless mode app window does not change position at all, it only becomes transparent or not. Zen Timer uses normal window so it has to be visible in Mission Control. As a last resort, you can use 'Center and Reset Position' menu option that can be found in Window menu when Zen Timer has the focus.
mangeletti 11y ago